My first tube experience

[User211]

Yeah, I agree, it does seem to be the wrong way round if you are an electrostat fan, hence DTB's laughter...

I think Sunday is an out and out tube fan in extremis, judging by his posts. But then again, so am I!!! But I can't live without stats.

 

[timm]

Yeah, I knew what he was referring to, I just don't get the logic. The guys already has Odyessys and was wondering if he should get a tube amp. Sunday says get the tube amp, but if it's underpowered sell the speakers and get something else. My point is, if you're happy with your speakers (as the OP apparently is) why not seek out a tube amp that does have enough juice to drive them properly. There are plenty of choices that don't include scrapping much of one's system.

Very well understood.... wasn't planning on scrapping my Odysseys - and I get the humor or the obsessiveness - even if no humor was intended!! If I ever do pull the trigger on any of this - and if I felt a need to have more control/power....I just bi-amp the odysseys with my sunfire on the low end and the tubes on the panels.... That handles the problem doesn't it?

 

[timm]

dang... forgot about the level matching on the amps.... worries for another day!!

 

[timm]

Ok -so I have a problem like I said before ... Ultralinear vs triode... what is the difference both in sound and in some techy speak (not too techy - I'm not an electrical engineer!!)... I see the Dialogue series comes in about 25 pounds heavier per amp - which I find interesting...and allows to switch between the two modes.... I'd figure you would stick with one mode - whichever fit your particular setup and run with it....

 

[risabet]

Ok -so I have a problem like I said before ... Ultralinear vs triode... what is the difference both in sound and in some techy speak (not too techy - I'm not an electrical engineer!!)... I see the Dialogue series comes in about 25 pounds heavier per amp - which I find interesting...and allows to switch between the two modes.... I'd figure you would stick with one mode - whichever fit your particular setup and run with it....

Ultralinear amps utilize their output tubes such as the pentode (filament, grid and 3 plates.), tetrode (filament, grid and 2 plates) or beam power tetrodes in just that, the ultralinear mode. That is the screen grid of the output tube is tapped to reduce the output impedance of the tube, a good thing generally. An UL amp will have about twice the output power of the same amp in triode mode. A triode operated tube utilizes the same tube complement but changes the electrical configuration to remove the OT tap to the extra grid(s). This is not to be confused with the true DH triodes like a 300B or 2A3 which only have a filament, grid and plate to begin with.

Sonically what you may find is that the triode mode is a softer, more harmonically rich sound that is typically, though not always, softer in the bass with less drive and authority. I tend to switch between the two modes depending on the music. RR, large scale orchestral (read Mahler, Orff, etc.), and popular music gets the UL mode. Jazz, chamber and choral music gets the triode mode. The ability to switch on the fly is a beautiful thing. As always YMMV!

 

[SundayNiagara]

If the amps cannot drive them sufficiently, then sell your speakers (Odysseys) as suggested :ROFL:

Good luck!

 

[SundayNiagara]

I think he is refering to this, Tim

Many people learn the hard way!

 

[SundayNiagara]

Yeah, I knew what he was referring to, I just don't get the logic. The guys already has Odyessys and was wondering if he should get a tube amp. Sunday says get the tube amp, but if it's underpowered sell the speakers and get something else. My point is, if you're happy with your speakers (as the OP apparently is) why not seek out a tube amp that does have enough juice to drive them properly. There are plenty of choices that don't include scrapping much of one's system.

Underpower isn't the issue here, it's the amp's ability to drive difficult loads. There are plenty of high powered tube amps out there, but very few can cope with a difficult load.

 

[Bernard]

large scale orchestral (read Mahler, Orff, etc.),

So what is your favourite recording of Carmina Burana? Mine is the Ozawa/BSO; I have also heard some great live performances.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

[risabet]

So what is your favourite recording of Carmina Burana? Mine is the Ozawa/BSO; I have also heard some great live performances.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

In the audiophile sense I like the Telarc Shaw and the ASO&C. Musically I like Dorati and the RPO on London. None compare to the work live, truly stunning and impactful.

 

[tonepub]

I agree with the couple of other people here in getting a tube amp you can live with. Some might grump, but forget the biamp thing. The extra money you spend on cables, etc would just buy a better tube amp.

Seeing you already have ARC, think about a VT 100, or a VT135 used. I've seen the Manley 240's (the predecessor to the 250's) show up pretty reasonable on the used market too. They do a great job with ML. The Classic 120's and 150's are great amps too. Lots of triode power

While I know a lot of people have done the biamp thing successfully, I'm not one for matching levels with power amps. Too much bother.

 

[timm]

I agree with the couple of other people here in getting a tube amp you can live with. Some might grump, but forget the biamp thing. The extra money you spend on cables, etc would just buy a better tube amp.

Seeing you already have ARC, think about a VT 100, or a VT135 used. I've seen the Manley 240's (the predecessor to the 250's) show up pretty reasonable on the used market too. They do a great job with ML. The Classic 120's and 150's are great amps too. Lots of triode power

While I know a lot of people have done the biamp thing successfully, I'm not one for matching levels with power amps. Too much bother.

Nah - I don't have ARC - I have Sunfire gear.... I was asking a question about the SP-9 from a prior post- someone made reference to it....Good point about the cables etc....

Jeff - it seems like you have your doubts about the primaluna monos matched with the odysseys....

 

[jtwrace]

Jeff-

Would you recommend VTL MB-185's or Atmasphere MA-1's? anything else?

I really want to try some tube mono blocks against my 200w SS mono's. Thoughts?

 

[kach22i]

Went into an Overture Audio here in Michigan

That is about two blocks from my house, shoot me a message next time you are in the hood.

Did you see the used gear in their basement?

I have a tube preamp and amp, click my system link #42.

 

[tonepub]

Nah - I don't have ARC - I have Sunfire gear.... I was asking a question about the SP-9 from a prior post- someone made reference to it....Good point about the cables etc....

Jeff - it seems like you have your doubts about the primaluna monos matched with the odysseys....

The only reason I have doubts is that I haven't heard that combination, so I can't really comment. I'm not sure if Prima Luna has a return policy, so it could either be magic or a costly mistake.

I do know they work well with vantage, summit and spire, as I have tried that.

No idea with the atmasphere, but OTL is always a hit/miss proposition with any speaker... But I've got a note into them to see if we can get a pair for review.

Personally, I really like the idea of a good tube preamp that you enjoy mated with a great solid state amplifier, because it's the closest you can come to having the best of both worlds.

However, my needs are different because my system is on 12 hours a day and I don't want to keep buying pallettes of output tubes. If you listen at a more normal pace, that last bit of tubeyness might be worth pursuing.

So far the tube amps that I've enjoyed with the current ML speakers have been:

Prima Luna Prologue monos
Manley 250 monos
ARC Classic 120s
BAT VK-55SE

With my past CLS and Aerius I had great luck with the ARC D-79 and ARC VT 100 and the CJ MV-52 (at moderate volume levels)

I'm not nuts about the McIntosh MC275 with current ML, but there are plenty of people who do enjoy that setup, so the bottom line is really you have to experiment with your room and setup. Some tube amps can drive ML's (and other speakers) with great results and some just won't be up to the task. I'm trying to get a few more tube amps in to try over the next year, so I'll keep you all posted as we go forward...

 

[timm]

The only reason I have doubts is that I haven't heard that combination, so I can't really comment. I'm not sure if Prima Luna has a return policy, so it could either be magic or a costly mistake.

I do know they work well with vantage, summit and spire, as I have tried that.

No idea with the atmasphere, but OTL is always a hit/miss proposition with any speaker... But I've got a note into them to see if we can get a pair for review.

Personally, I really like the idea of a good tube preamp that you enjoy mated with a great solid state amplifier, because it's the closest you can come to having the best of both worlds.

However, my needs are different because my system is on 12 hours a day and I don't want to keep buying pallettes of output tubes. If you listen at a more normal pace, that last bit of tubeyness might be worth pursuing.

So far the tube amps that I've enjoyed with the current ML speakers have been:

Prima Luna Prologue monos
Manley 250 monos
ARC Classic 120s
BAT VK-55SE

With my past CLS and Aerius I had great luck with the ARC D-79 and ARC VT 100 and the CJ MV-52 (at moderate volume levels)

I'm not nuts about the McIntosh MC275 with current ML, but there are plenty of people who do enjoy that setup, so the bottom line is really you have to experiment with your room and setup. Some tube amps can drive ML's (and other speakers) with great results and some just won't be up to the task. I'm trying to get a few more tube amps in to try over the next year, so I'll keep you all posted as we go forward...

Thanks Jeff 'How do they sound?...bitchin'.....' Dorgay.....!!!

 

[RichTeer]

Thanks Jeff 'How do they sound?...bitchin'.....' Dorgay.....!!!

I think you've been reading too many old Upscale Audio ads!

 

[RichTeer]

The only reason I have doubts is that I haven't heard that combination, so I can't really comment. I'm not sure if Prima Luna has a return policy, so it could either be magic or a costly mistake.

I believe they have a 14 day return policy, but a 10% restocking fee might apply. This made me a nervous when I ordered my ProLogue 7s last year, but I needn't have worried. I am a very happy camper!

 

[twich54]

You want some 'affordable' tube power.............


http://www.rogueaudio.com/News.htm


I hope to get to listen to these babies next month, when I was last up to see Mark he didn't have a 'spare pair' to audition but said with some advance notice ....... I believe his wide bandwidth approach make them well suited to our Logans.

 

[timm]

Couple more questions ... if anyone can chime in ... (Jeff??) - The primaluna dialogues have been given better reviews than the prologues... Are they that much better? Said they can drive a more difficult load - Jim Hannon in Absolute sound says the dialogue 2 drove his Quad 2805s 'effortlessly' - while the prologue 6s had some issues. Seemed like the dialogues had better control / better dynamics according to the review... Anyone here compare these?

Secondly, I look at the specs - and although I am not a real spec man - the 84 db S/N ratio seems really low as does the thd measurement of .25 - 2% at max output. Would an amp with these specs seem 'quiet'? Would I hear hiss thru the speakers if I went up to them? A solid state amp with these specs would be trashed....