Inching closer to a Summit X

[Hocky]

I've spent a fair amount of time with the Q5's locally and they're excellent.

 

[sydsrig]

Interesting... I heard the Q3's at CES and they did sounded mighty fine. I did not have a chance to hear them critically yet, although I may plan a trip to Goodwin's for that. I did hear the CLX's there on a full Spectral Reference system and that was pretty magical (except for the low end of course, I did not use the subs in the evaluation), much more of a cohesive piece (and expansive soundstage) than the Summit X's, although I really like the Summit X's as well, if not for their shear versatility in dialing in the bass.

Now you got me thinking about replacing my DMC 30SL Series II with the DMC 30SS Series II given how much you like that unit. One more thing to add to my list of equipment to evaluate!

 

[spectral]

Interesting... I heard the Q3's at CES and they did sounded mighty fine. I did not have a chance to hear them critically yet, although I may plan a trip to Goodwin's for that. I did hear the CLX's there on a full Spectral Reference system and that was pretty magical (except for the low end of course, I did not use the subs in the evaluation), much more of a cohesive piece (and expansive soundstage) than the Summit X's, although I really like the Summit X's as well, if not for their shear versatility in dialing in the bass.

Now you got me thinking about replacing my DMC 30SL Series II with the DMC 30SS Series II given how much you like that unit. One more thing to add to my list of equipment to evaluate!

Yes ultra-fast ML's paired with ultra-fast Spectrals is something else - been doing it for years as you can tell. And I am not alone - some of the older pieces I have sold locally went to drive Prodigies and Re-Quests - lots of happy local ML/Spectral owners.

The 30SS S2 is the end of the line, for me... seriously; you will be so impressed by how not there it is, and you can easily prove it by driving your amp(s) with and without it.

 

[sydsrig]

I wish had the option to drive the amp without the preamp to A/B, but unfortunately my amp is a DMA 150 Series II which may not take well to having something other than a Spectral preamp Driving it. My MIT Oracle 1.1's speaker cables may help ameliorate this somewhat, but I'm not sure I'm willing to take the chance.

BTW, my current speakers are Avalon Eidolons.

 

[tsv_1]

BTW, my current speakers are Avalon Eidolons.

I loves me the Eidolons! One of my fav dynamic transducers. Cheers.

 

[sydsrig]

Thanks! You still have your CLX's with JL subs? I can only imagine that this has brought you to audio nirvana?

 

[tsv_1]

I still have the CLXs, yes. However, I sold my JLs because I could never get rid of some residual 60Hz hum with them in the system (not for lack of trying, believe me). Very odd. The folks who bought the JLs state they are wildly pleased, so I guess no humm issues for them (thank goodness).

I now have a pair of ML Depth i with zero hum and great performance (although giving up some authority compared to the JLs). Subwoofing is the one area I still need to address. The best and most recent addition though, without a doubt, would be the two ModWright KWA150SE amps... Wow!

 

[spectral]

I wish had the option to drive the amp without the preamp to A/B, but unfortunately my amp is a DMA 150 Series II which may not take well to having something other than a Spectral preamp Driving it. My MIT Oracle 1.1's speaker cables may help ameliorate this somewhat, but I'm not sure I'm willing to take the chance.

BTW, my current speakers are Avalon Eidolons.

I was hesitant about driving my 360s direct, but no more - and since I no longer have a preamp, that's the only option for the moment. I also had the 150 S2 at one point. You are probably better off replacing the amp (suggest the 260) first before replacing the preamp.

 

[RUR]

Subwoofing is the one area I still need to address.

Todd, here's some IMHO required reading to get you started:

Geddes multi-sub approach

Harman ditto

Both arrive at the same dispersed sub solution.

Also consider a useful measurement kit e.g. Dayton Omnimic or REW and, if you're really adventurous, an active mains/sub crossover and EQ.

Time spent learning, fiddling and measuring will reward the effort, big-time.

 

[tsv_1]

Todd, here's some IMHO required reading to get you started:

Geddes multi-sub approach

Harman ditto

Both arrive at the same dispersed sub solution.

Also consider a useful measurement kit e.g. Dayton Omnimic or REW and, if you're really adventurous, an active mains/sub crossover and EQ.

Time spent learning, fiddling and measuring will reward the effort, big-time.

Thanks RUR... much obliged.

 

[JordanD]

I still have the CLXs, yes. However, I sold my JLs because I could never get rid of some residual 60Hz hum with them in the system (not for lack of trying, believe me). Very odd. The folks who bought the JLs state they are wildly pleased, so I guess no humm issues for them (thank goodness).

I now have a pair of ML Depth i with zero hum and great performance (although giving up some authority compared to the JLs). Subwoofing is the one area I still need to address. The best and most recent addition though, without a doubt, would be the two ModWright KWA150SE amps... Wow!

Just curious, did you ever get the CLX filters for your Depth i's? ML makes a special chip for the CLX and the Depth/Decent just to make the "match made in heaven" that much better.

I listened to a pair of 25th CLXs this weekend with a Depth i that had that chip. It sounded simply fantastic. If I didn't know the subwoofer was in room I would have believed you if you told me there wasn't one. Even still I was still skeptical and got up often to check and see if the subwoofer was working with my hands hahaha.

 

[sydsrig]

Aren't the Descent i's the sub's with the CLX crossover setting build into it? Wondering why you chose the Depth i's over those. I'm not familiar with the ModWright amps (I heard them briefly at CES a few years back), but if they work, then that's great! What kind of power do they put out relative the CLX's requirements?

 

[sydsrig]

I was hesitant about driving my 360s direct, but no more - and since I no longer have a preamp, that's the only option for the moment. I also had the 150 S2 at one point. You are probably better off replacing the amp (suggest the 260) first before replacing the preamp.

I assume you are driving the 360's direct with the Berkeley? That seems to be the unit of choice for that application. If so, do you plan on getting there new USB converter box? Regarding upgrading my 150 S2 to the 260, I could not agree with you more. In all honesty however, I'm looking to make a speaker move first (considering MBL's at the moment, but Summit X's and CLX's are also high on my list).

Are you familiar with the MIT Oracle Matrix 1.1 cable? That is what I'm currently using with my Spectral 150 S2 and Eidolons. I was wondering if you heard the current generation Oracle 1.3's or Maximum Articulation cables and what your impressions of them are (with respect to upgrading that part of the audio chain).

 

[tsv_1]

Haven't got the filters yet because I'm not sure about my next subwoofer move. I know Necrosuit also swears by the filter and has said almost exactly what you just said - had to check it because it seemed like it wasn't even on.

I guess any filter specifically designed for the CLX, for the hundred$ paid (for a tiny cross-over PCB), better be brilliant. It is a little annoying though that ML doesn't "right-price" those filters for all CLX owners. Hell, it's gotta be $3 to produce... their markup is stratospheric.

 

[spectral]

I assume you are driving the 360's direct with the Berkeley? That seems to be the unit of choice for that application. If so, do you plan on getting there new USB converter box?

Yes at some point. Computer audio is still in its childhood in terms of usability and convenience...

Regarding upgrading my 150 S2 to the 260, I could not agree with you more. In all honesty however, I'm looking to make a speaker move first (considering MBL's at the moment, but Summit X's and CLX's are also high on my list).

Nice move... but keep in mind, the 150 is quite a bit euphonic (to my ears at least).

Are you familiar with the MIT Oracle Matrix 1.1 cable? That is what I'm currently using with my Spectral 150 S2 and Eidolons. I was wondering if you heard the current generation Oracle 1.3's or Maximum Articulation cables and what your impressions of them are (with respect to upgrading that part of the audio chain).

Sorry, I am the wrong person to ask... Having analyzed this issue to death and talking to Spectral, there is exactly one set of values for optimal performance, and that's the MIT/Spectral cables only. Everything else is a variation on a theme and choosing is just a matter of taste. A lot of people swear by all these exotic cables, but they all leave me cold.

Peter

 

[tsv_1]

Aren't the Descent i's the sub's with the CLX crossover setting build into it? Wondering why you chose the Depth i's over those. I'm not familiar with the ModWright amps (I heard them briefly at CES a few years back), but if they work, then that's great! What kind of power do they put out relative the CLX's requirements?

Neither the Depth nor the Descent have the special CLX filter built in... need to buy the filter separately and install it. Both these subs have a "CLX setting" on the cross-over dial, but that setting selects the install-able filter. If it's not installed, no worky.

I chose the Depth because I felt like two Descents would just be too much for my room. In retrospect, I think I let my budget-mindedness get the best of me and I should have sprung for the Descents... or at least one initially and then another if I felt it was warrented.

The ModWrights are astounding. I bought two and configured each for Mono. As such, they drive 600W per channel which the CLXs seem to slop up like a thristy dog (OK, horrible analogy). But having had a pair of 70W KT88 based tubed monos previously, it didn't take too long to realize I was under powering the speakers. Moving to big watts is (IMO) the right thing to do with CLXs.

Cheers

 

[sydsrig]

Sorry, I am the wrong person to ask... Having analyzed this issue to death and talking to Spectral, there is exactly one set of values for optimal performance, and that's the MIT/Spectral cables only. Everything else is a variation on a theme and choosing is just a matter of taste. A lot of people swear by all these exotic cables, but they all leave me cold.

Peter

I must admit that I was also skeptical at the time myself. But Alan Goodwin (who basically built my system, I've known for close to 30 years and whose ears I trust) sent me a pair for me to break into my system. For the first 150 hours I basically ready to send them back. He kept telling me to wait until I got about 150 hours on them, and sure enough, right at the 150 hour mark I could not believe my ears. The difference it made in my ridiculous. It was greater than the when I dropped in my 150 S2 and about as great as when I dropped in my DMC 30SL S2. At 200 hours, performance went up another very audible step, and at 300 hours it basically took it's final step. Needless to say, the rest is history...

It's interesting to me that you were not able to hear that kind of wholesale improvement with these (admittedly, rather expensive) cables... Word has it that Rick F. and/or Keith O. acquired a pair of Oracle cables (at the time) for their purposes as well.

In any event, the DMA 260 is my next logical amp choice, although your 360 mono blocks are an attractive alternative. It may not have the latest thinking in it from Spectral, but it is hard to beat in many ways.

 

[Bernard]

It is a little annoying though that ML doesn't "right-price" those filters for all CLX owners. Hell, it's gotta be $3 to produce... their markup is stratospheric.

Todd, you forget about the price of the development that went into the filter.

 

[sydsrig]

Neither the Depth nor the Descent have the special CLX filter built in... need to buy the filter separately and install it. Both these subs have a "CLX setting" on the cross-over dial, but that setting selects the install-able filter. If it's not installed, no worky.

I chose the Depth because I felt like two Descents would just be too much for my room. In retrospect, I think I let my budget-mindedness get the best of me and I should have sprung for the Descents... or at least one initially and then another if I felt it was warrented.

The ModWrights are astounding. I bought two and configured each for Mono. As such, they drive 600W per channel which the CLXs seem to slop up like a thristy dog (OK, horrible analogy). But having had a pair of 70W KT88 based tubed monos previously, it didn't take too long to realize I was under powering the speakers. Moving to big watts is (IMO) the right thing to do with CLXs.

Cheers

Did not realize that you needed to buy the CLX filter for the subwoofers. Thanks for enlightening me on that! Are the filters user installable, or does ML need to put them in?

Regarding moving big power into the CLX's, I'm with you on that. I heard them with a pair of DMA 360's and it was breathtaking (no subs at the time).

 

[Gordon Gray]

What MBL model(s) are you considering?

I assume the 111's or the 101's.

GG