ESL - endless need of panel replacements

[Russr]

Living in Houston, TX with lots of humidity & dust (but WITH whole-house AC), many years ago I bought a Fridrich C-90 electrostatic air purifier. It did a good job of keeping a lot of dust out the air in my living/audio room. Also, being electrostatic, I could just place the active filter in the dishwasher every so often for cleaning. It does not seem to be a current product, but something like that, carefully placed in your room to keep circulating air relatively particle-free might help a lot.

Best of luck with the washing - it should help if you have visible dirt on the panels. If ML has any representation in your area, it's highly likely that all their custoemrs are having similar issues... I'm surpirsed the don't offer a "washing service"!

 

[Robert D]

Living in Houston, TX with lots of humidity & dust (but WITH whole-house AC), many years ago I bought a Fridrich C-90 electrostatic air purifier. It did a good job of keeping a lot of dust out the air in my living/audio room. Also, being electrostatic, I could just place the active filter in the dishwasher every so often for cleaning. It does not seem to be a current product, but something like that, carefully placed in your room to keep circulating air relatively particle-free might help a lot.

Best of luck with the washing - it should help if you have visible dirt on the panels. If ML has any representation in your area, it's highly likely that all their custoemrs are having similar issues... I'm surpirsed the don't offer a "washing service"!

Yes, cleaning the electrostatic cells is really easy. Mine are pretty big since the 2 of them are in the central heating/cooling system, and so I clean mine with a hose in the driveway and use simple green cleaner.
I think the new HEPA filters are better though and capture smaller particles
I've been using electrostatic cleaners since the 70s because I've got asthma.

 

[roni44]

You don't run a central air conditioner in your home during the summer?

we have a/c unit for each room, which is on when room is occupied.

 

[roni44]

What was your procedure to wash them ?
Did you use just water ? demineralized water ? Any chemical ? Brush?

Really trying to avoid damaging even more.

Damn I never thought id be talking, one day, of washing speakers lol



EDIT: I just came a closer look to my faulty panel.
I never checked so closely, but the thing is quite dirty actually. I really need to try the washing procedure.

I use lukewarm water with regular shower pressure, spray evenly each panel about 4~5 min. in the very beginning when I took over the ownership, I did use dish detergent with soft sponge and Q-tip to clean the smoke skunk as much as possible. Then I showered panel with water twice since then. After you wash the panel, water residue will resides in corners, make sure you shake the panel and keep air blow until water is gone. BTW, last 2 times I've rinse the panels, I didn't even remove them from the frame, less time consuming. Again, washing them doesn't guarantee revive them, but worth a try if you got nothing to lose. Feel free to PM me if you have further question or concern.

 

[Ishaansuri]

Interesting, Probably you don't remember his name, right ?

Like I mentioned, running air con 24/7 could not be an option

Hey! - haha here I am - thanks Robert for remembering - a very happy new year to you all.

hi guynemer - what ESL models are these?
I live in New Delhi india, not so humid, and also my sound system sits in literally a temp/humidity/dust controlled environment as my home is pretty sealed.

So I did have my panels changed right out of the box 3 months in - bias boards had also gone - however for a long term solution can you please ask your dealer/distrubutor to check and cross out possible issues with the below. - it could be humidity, but it is always something simpler, like amps, bias board pairs and or bad power. ML doesn't make such weak stuff. have a look at the list below

1. bias boards on each speaker - these tend to die before the panels - sometimes also die due to a defective panel. so if you change the panel you must change the bias board, else a spoilt board will kill your new panel.

2. check your crossovers as well.

3. what amplifiers are you using ? do ensure you are using amps rated down to 2ohm or those which can handle heavy impedance swings. I was using emotivas when I got these in 2021 - after the first round of panel issues I changed to McIntosh with autoformers.

LASTLY
cleaning
1. I use a simple hand held battery air blower from amazon and blow dust if any with it once in a few weeks, sample link attached (https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B0B7XXKSL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

and I vacuum them with a simple battery powered cordless vacuum cleaner once in a month (something like a handheld Dyson)

you have to clean these after they have been off the wall power at least 12 hours/overnight.

at the moment mine are working perfectly - touchwood. so this is the best I can advise.
do get them to dig into the upstream electronics on the speaker box.

PS - I do not cover my panels in humid environments - especially not with the supplied black cloth covers, they are dust friendly and!!- I had bugs get in there and make more havoc when I did, and they started buzzing popping again until I took the bug residue out - that was a freaky one.

 

[Robert D]

Hey! - haha here I am - thanks Robert for remembering - a very happy new year to you all.

hi guynemer - what ESL models are these?
I live in New Delhi india, not so humid, and also my sound system sits in literally a temp/humidity/dust controlled environment as my home is pretty sealed.

So I did have my panels changed right out of the box 3 months in - bias boards had also gone - however for a long term solution can you please ask your dealer/distrubutor to check and cross out possible issues with the below. - it could be humidity, but it is always something simpler, like amps, bias board pairs and or bad power. ML doesn't make such weak stuff. have a look at the list below

1. bias boards on each speaker - these tend to die before the panels - sometimes also die due to a defective panel. so if you change the panel you must change the bias board, else a spoilt board will kill your new panel.

2. check your crossovers as well.

3. what amplifiers are you using ? do ensure you are using amps rated down to 2ohm or those which can handle heavy impedance swings. I was using emotivas when I got these in 2021 - after the first round of panel issues I changed to McIntosh with autoformers.

LASTLY
cleaning
1. I use a simple hand held battery air blower from amazon and blow dust if any with it once in a few weeks, sample link attached (https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B0B7XXKSL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

and I vacuum them with a simple battery powered cordless vacuum cleaner once in a month (something like a handheld Dyson)

you have to clean these after they have been off the wall power at least 12 hours/overnight.

at the moment mine are working perfectly - touchwood. so this is the best I can advise.
do get them to dig into the upstream electronics on the speaker box.

PS - I do not cover my panels in humid environments - especially not with the supplied black cloth covers, they are dust friendly and!!- I had bugs get in there and make more havoc when I did, and they started buzzing popping again until I took the bug residue out - that was a freaky one.

Wow, never thought about the trouble bugs could cause. I guess the panels would act like a fancy bug zapper!
I'm glad you've figured out how to keep your panels running strong. Your case was really odd, how the panels died so young.

 

[Ishaansuri]

Wow, never thought about the trouble bugs could cause. I guess the panels would act like a fancy bug zapper!
I'm glad you've figured out how to keep your panels running strong. Your case was really odd, how the panels died so young.

Yeah...Maybe in hindsight it was the emotiva amps. Maybe it was being in storage over covid too long. I did buy them straight out of lock downs in 2021. But I don't believe they should die just with weather and air and house dust. Unless you are really letting them out in the yard.

Cheers.

 

[guynemer]

I am happy to report success on the washing.

The sound awesomeness is back.


EDIT :

Side notes. The plastic they use to build the mount pieces holding the panels is absolute garbage.
Brittle, they crack overtime very easily. Total BS.

I hope they can provide new sets.

 

[Robert D]

I am happy to report success on the washing.

The sound awesomeness is back.


EDIT :

Side notes. The plastic they use to build the mount pieces holding the panels is absolute garbage.
Brittle, they crack overtime very easily. Total BS.

I hope they can provide new sets.

Congrats! Great news. So they sound about as good as new? What are your plans to try and prevent this from happening again?

 

[guynemer]

Yeah they sound terrific, probably as good as new.

When it comes to not letting this happen, I think I am screwed. The only thing I ll do, which i didnt so far, is to cover them all the time when I am not using them. Maybe air con when im gonna be playing them, but def air con 24/7 is nogo.

I ll get a air purifier also, well maybe. I am not sure if that's relevant in a fully open living room. (Too hot here, can't have the house closed during the day)

 

[Robert D]

Yeah they sound terrific, probably as good as new.

When it comes to not letting this happen, I think I am screwed. The only thing I ll do, which i didnt so far, is to cover them all the time when I am not using them. Maybe air con when im gonna be playing them, but def air con 24/7 is nogo.

I ll get a air purifier also, well maybe. I am not sure if that's relevant in a fully open living room. (Too hot here, can't have the house closed during the day)

Yeah, if the house is open to the outside all day long then the air purifier will do very little I believe.

 

[Nuri58]

Great news that was the trick. Supports my suspension of the air quality there.

To delay the need for cleaning too often A/C whilst playing (actually 1h before) sounds like a good idea - when the air is not in motion it must be less of a problem. I'd also disconnect them and play until the "worst" charge is off - takes a minute or so and you won't be in doubt when. Abut covering them there was a post with a warning. Maybe don't. I'd still thing a good idea is to put a ventilator (not A/C) in the wall with a filter of some kind would help tremendously. Such has little consumption (25W or so - less than a fan), much less than an A/C just running 30 min. What ever you deciede to do good luck.

 

[Robert D]

An air cleaner/purifier like a good HEPA filter would help if you are able to close off the room you play the speakers in, a few hours before you play them. You'd need to research how fast the cleaner could clean the air in that room and keep it closed that long. Keep it closed while you play it. All doors and windows closed. Run the air cleaner 24/7. If the room is open to the rest of the house and the outdoors all of the time, it would probably help very little.

 

[Nuri58]

What you want is to have a little higher air presure inside that room - a vent with a filter taking the stuff you decrribed out of the air before even get into the room consuming a mininum of power. Airport purifiers are mainly meant to remove allergenes but the also have good effect on tobacco smoke. However, they work on the air already in more and they are both more expensive expensive to run that a simple ventilator and more expensive to aquire. Don't think you can get a standard build house in the Philippines close to tight but it doesn't harm to try.

PS and no smoking in that room!

 

[Robert D]

How about unplugging the speakers when not in use, especially if they aren't going to be used within 24 hrs. That could help some, especially if they sit unused for a day or more. Not having a charge on the panels will drastically cut down on for particulates depositing on there.

 

[Nuri58]

How about unplugging the speakers when not in use, especially if they aren't going to be used within 24 hrs. That could help some, especially if they sit unused for a day or more. Not having a charge on the panels will drastically cut down on for particulates depositing on there.

Yes as I sugested a few posts above (but extra work). I think the combi of that, starting the A/C a bit in advance (and if you fit a fresh filter even better - not sure that all A/C have the possibility). Close the doors/windows and, of course no smoking, will defenitly reduse the need for washing the panels too often. So happy listning whichever solution you opt for.

 

[Robert D]

Yes as I sugested a few posts above (but extra work). I think the combi of that, starting the A/C a bit in advance (and if you fit a fresh filter even better - not sure that all A/C have the possibility). Close the doors/windows and, of course no smoking, will defenitly reduse the need for washing the panels too often. So happy listning whichever solution you opt for.

Yeah, it'll require quite a bit of effort, but might extend the lifespan some. At least washing worked. Definitely not a great environment for electrostats. Martin Logan should probably have a disclaimer about such situations. I'd make good use of their warranty while its active.

 

[Nuri58]

Yeah, it'll require quite a bit of effort, but might extend the lifespan some. At least washing worked. Definitely not a great environment for electrostats. Martin Logan should probably have a disclaimer about such situations. I'd make good use of their warranty while its active.

I think the warranty would not cover "self-inflicted" problems but as long they the replaces panels during the first year or two whatever is the period is in PH, then fine. But I agree that a disclaimer regarding air quality would be in place (but then the warranty is void when that is the case). Wonderful that washing worked - i suspect you can only do that so many times before the coating is gone - anyone knows?

 

[Robert D]

I think the warranty would not cover "self-inflicted" problems but as long they the replaces panels during the first year or two whatever is the period is in PH, then fine. But I agree that a disclaimer regarding air quality would be in place (but then the warranty is void when that is the case). Wonderful that washing worked - i suspect you can only do that so many times before the coating is gone - anyone knows?

Russ Knotts told me he felt washing them with just water would wear some off. His advice was not to, but from results on here it seems it works.
I just bought new panels, but mine were 20 years old.

 

[Nuri58]

I tried AI - here are 10 solution. The first two involved a breathable cover and certain plants absorbing air particles.

1. **DIY Air Filtration:** Create a simple air filtration system using a box fan and a high-quality air filter.
2. **Room Sealing:** Seal windows and doors to minimize outdoor particle entry.
3. **Regular Cleaning:** Dust and clean the room regularly to reduce airborne particles.
4. **Humidity Control:** Maintain optimal humidity levels to prevent particle suspension.
5. **Air Vents Filters:** Install filters on air vents to trap particles before they reach the speakers.
6. **Storage Covers:** Use speaker covers when not in use to shield them from dust and particles.
7. **Air Ionizers:** Consider using air ionizers to help settle particles out of the air.
8. **Ventilation System Upgrade:** Improve ventilation to reduce indoor air pollutants.
9. **UV-C Light:** Use UV-C lights to neutralize airborne particles in the room.
10. **Professional Assessment:** Consult with an HVAC professional for tailored solutions to improve indoor air quality.