ESL - endless need of panel replacements

[guynemer]

I live in Montevideo, Uruguay.
We don't have a hot climate, but humidity is always high, 80-100% is common, never had problem with panels.
The air here is quite clean though, very little polution and I vaccum the panels every 45 - 60 days.
It's probably a combination of humidity and polution what's damaging the panels.
Avoid smoking in the music room, tobacco smoke is specially bad.

Owned Odysseys for 15 years and now Montis (built in 2016), only problem was woofer in the Odysseys that last only a week when I bought them, replaced under warranty.

There is ZERO smoking of any kind in my house though.

Pollution ? I live in the outskirts of the city, so I don't think we have a lot of that.
Dust however... that is more present definitely.

I will try to hoover the panel, but if it doesn't work, should I really try to wash them ?

Heard of dead zones coming back to life thx to washing ?

 

[guynemer]

Is more likely the air polution so I'd start there - which means you IMO can't do much other than frequent washing until you change ro conventional speakers. Manila is more like a all year round smog and no mater what you do it's getting in. It can be reduced if you get a real air conditioner system actually cleaning the blown-in air (and keeping a little higher air preasure lnside than outsise) but that's more costly than the change of panels. Move to the country side is maybe another option but then you have the transport time and cost instead...

Thx but I am definitely NOT in this atricious city called Manila haha

I am very far, in Mindanao, but still I live near a big city, on the outskirts.
AirCon 24h is definetely absolute no go.

I can't bring myself to conventional speakers, I have never heard any that could come to the ML in terms of clarity. When they run properly, it is effin magical.

But maybe I misssed out on some "conventional" brand, let me know

 

[guynemer]

I live in Taiwan (tropical island), humidity especially during summer has not been problem for my EM ESL and previous Clarity. Does anyone smoke in the room? how about cooking fume? How about get an air purifier and dehumidifier? Vacuum every 2 month, and cover the panel when not in use ( I don't cover anymore). I rescued EM ESL (both panel had barely any audio output) from a heavy smoker, when I took it over, the panel was covered smoke gunk, dust and etc. I washed the panel best way I can then use dyson air drying no heat setting, entire process takes me little over 3 hours and brought back to life. I really don't think the humidity is the culprit, more or less has to do with air pollution.

What was your procedure to wash them ?
Did you use just water ? demineralized water ? Any chemical ? Brush?

Really trying to avoid damaging even more.

Damn I never thought id be talking, one day, of washing speakers lol



EDIT: I just came a closer look to my faulty panel.
I never checked so closely, but the thing is quite dirty actually. I really need to try the washing procedure.

 

[Robert D]

What was your procedure to wash them ?
Did you use just water ? demineralized water ? Any chemical ? Brush?

Really trying to avoid damaging even more.

Damn I never thought id be talking, one day, of washing speakers lol



EDIT: I just came a closer look to my faulty panel.
I never checked so closely, but the thing is quite dirty actually. I really need to try the washing procedure.

If they are so dirty that you can see it, a good HEPA air filter in that room should help. I'd get the best one you can find.

https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/what-hepa-filter

 

[Nuri58]

Davao city is better but still quite poluted. HEPA filter wount work unless your house is very airthigt with controlled air vents with a filter and you maintain a higher airpressure inside that room
The filter will need frequent washing or replacemet. The diesel fumes (and I am convinced it is) will stick in any filter and washing might no be sufficient.

 

[Robert D]

Davao city is better but still quite poluted. HEPA filter wount work unless your house is very airthigt with controlled air vents with a filter and you maintain a higher airpressure inside that room
The filter will need frequent washing or replacemet. The diesel fumes (and I am convinced it is) will stick in any filter and washing might no be sufficient.

I guess homes there aren't air tight like we have in the US? Our homes have all been tight, but the oldest was about 12 years old when we bought it. Our other 2 we had built new. I think even older homes are ok if they have newer windows?
Our HEPA filters here last 1 year before needing replacement.

 

[Nuri58]

I note you're not a civil engineer . You never will find an airtight house anywherw in the world except dus-tfree room for computer chip production or underground bungalows and the like - if they were really airtight you would need constant ventilation with fresh air getting in and evacuation of used (you need to change the air in a room multile times a day to get the co2 level down below preferably 1000 ppm). In the States windows and dors and windows are often made from simple alu-frames which are far from air-tight. My sister in law living in California (South of LA on ahill top where it constantly blowing). She is on the look for some windows and dors for her 3y old house to prevent draft and rattling doors, but so far without luck.

In the Philippines Windows are often made with slated glass thus very far from airtight. So the only solution I see is a powerfull fan with a sort of a filter in the listning room. The issue is its capacity - the less air tight the higher capacity you need. But as a minimum it must change the the air in the room every hour. It may not eradicate the issue bur it will reduce it.

 

[guynemer]

That sounds like non viable solutions sadly.

Hopefully I will manage to bring back my panel to life with washing.


I have disconnected the panels this morning, will wait the recommended 24hours then proceed with the washing tomorrow.

 

[Robert D]

I note you're not a civil engineer . You never will find an airtight house anywherw in the world except dus-tfree room for computer chip production or underground bungalows and the like - if they were really airtight you would need constant ventilation with fresh air getting in and evacuation of used (you need to change the air in a room multile times a day to get the co2 level down below preferably 1000 ppm). In the States windows and dors and windows are often made from simple alu-frames which are far from air-tight. My sister in law living in California (South of LA on ahill top where it constantly blowing). She is on the look for some windows and dors for her 3y old house to prevent draft and rattling doors, but so far without luck.

In the Philippines Windows are often made with slated glass thus very far from airtight. So the only solution I see is a powerfull fan with a sort of a filter in the listning room. The issue is its capacity - the less air tight the higher capacity you need. But as a minimum it must change the the air in the room every hour. It may not eradicate the issue bur it will reduce it.

LOL, I never said my house is airtight. I said it is tight. Obviously its not airtight. I was a chemistry/bio high school teacher and taught some lab classes at a university too, im not an idiot.

I guess what this problem comes down to is the fact that our air here in the US, at least where ive lived my whole life, is much cleaner than these other places. Ive never had trouble like they are having. Our air here is pretty clean. We keep our house closed up all year long and rarely open the windows. We run the AC much of the year and humidity is controlled in our home. I have an electrostatic air cleaner in the central unit of the house and two HEPA filters in other parts of the home. Air here in Ohio isnt ever bad. The only time we had bad air quality was this past summer when all of the forest fires up in Canada were pushing their smoke down here.

 

[Robert D]

That sounds like non viable solutions sadly.

Hopefully I will manage to bring back my panel to life with washing.


I have disconnected the panels this morning, will wait the recommended 24hours then proceed with the washing tomorrow.

Depending on your budget, getting a good HEPA filter for the room the speakers are in might help some. It would work best if the room could be closed off from the rest of the home.

 

[Robert D]

Interesting data here. Im not sure how they calculated this.

https://www.iqair.com/world-air-qua..._medium=Wildfire Systems&irgwc=1&im_rewards=1

 

[18000rpm]

Maybe Robert D was referring to me? I live in Singapore and we've communicated over many threads. I live in Singapore and have pairs of Prodigy, Summit and Aeon i. I think my climate is very similar to Philippines (hot and humid). I do have a dehumidifier and air purifier in my living room where most of my speakers are. I don't turn on my A/C all the time but most nights when I use my speakers I do turn them on.

I think it's very unusual that your panels are getting so many dead zones. I've had to replace my panels but every time they just decrease greatly in volume, never had any dead zones. And the panels usually last 6-8 years. I suggest you check with ML customer support and see if they can help with the replacement because getting so many dead zones after 2-3 years may be a manufacturing defect.

I try to vacuum my panels once a month. And I keep my windows closed most of the time, party to avoid dust. My air purifier runs 24/7, dehumidifier runs when I'm in bed, A/C on in the evenings when I'm using the speakers. You may also consider getting covers made so you can cover the speakers when not in use. I use a pair of long pillow cases (although to be honest I rarely put them on, only when I'm away for extended periods) but you can have some custom made so they are less of an eyesore. Of course, don't use any material that may have static electricity etc.

 

[Nuri58]

The obvious is to cover possibly unplug the speakers when not in use. But then again i suspect that it's when air is being moved the dammage happens, i.e. when playing.

Surprises me you need that much cleaning in Singapore. I would not have thought so.

Anyway, Guynemer keep us posted with ypur result.

 

[18000rpm]

Surprises me you need that much cleaning in Singapore. I would not have thought so.

We use an air purifier for health reasons. And dehumidifier because at one point we had a mold issue due to the humidity (not uncommon for Singapore). Having both of these make the environment more pleasant, the fact it helps my panels is a bonus

 

[Nuri58]

Yes quite common with mold in humid places that include places with little air circulation and low temperatures. My house was quite tight so i had to install a systen changing the air in the house 24/7 running at about 80m3/h. It features a heat ehchanger and a heat pump, which also brings the humidity down to about 60%, gives me "free" hot water in the house + cleaner air since the air is filteret (air here is quite clean without filters, but at summer lots of pollen and the like meaning it isn'tfree of "natural" particles). But that keeps my panels in good shape with a minimun need for vacuuming. I guess ELS is only goid for certain geographies unless you have some heavy air treatment in place.

 

[gvera]

I think hot humid air is going to do more damage because hot air holds a lot more water. Your conditions certainly aren't ideal. Do you run a central air conditioning system when it's warm, like we do in the US? Those that don't run AC a lot can run a dehumidifier if they need to. Growing up, we ran one in the basement.

It's promising to know you get a good lifespan out of your panels.

Almost no house in Uruguay has central A/C, only commercial or office buildings.
Split A/C is the norm and we use them around 20 days a year, climate is mild and for winter heating we use radiating heated floors.
Early autumn, late spring and most summer days it's just open windows.

 

[Nuri58]

There is a reason that the US is on top of CO2 emmisions list (funnely enough it still looks like a smile...). Anyway let's not turn this discution into a climate thing - the extra power ML takes (not to mention all but class D amplifiers and so forth.) The issue at hand is to find solutions to the issue og Guynemer and his constraints keeping in mind we would like the world to exist. On that note happy new year to all

 

[Robert D]

Maybe Robert D was referring to me? I live in Singapore and we've communicated over many threads. I live in Singapore and have pairs of Prodigy, Summit and Aeon i. I think my climate is very similar to Philippines (hot and humid). I do have a dehumidifier and air purifier in my living room where most of my speakers are. I don't turn on my A/C all the time but most nights when I use my speakers I do turn them on.

I think it's very unusual that your panels are getting so many dead zones. I've had to replace my panels but every time they just decrease greatly in volume, never had any dead zones. And the panels usually last 6-8 years. I suggest you check with ML customer support and see if they can help with the replacement because getting so many dead zones after 2-3 years may be a manufacturing defect.

I try to vacuum my panels once a month. And I keep my windows closed most of the time, party to avoid dust. My air purifier runs 24/7, dehumidifier runs when I'm in bed, A/C on in the evenings when I'm using the speakers. You may also consider getting covers made so you can cover the speakers when not in use. I use a pair of long pillow cases (although to be honest I rarely put them on, only when I'm away for extended periods) but you can have some custom made so they are less of an eyesore. Of course, don't use any material that may have static electricity etc.

Thanks for coming on. Yeah, I think I was thinking about you. My memory isn't what it should be!
It sounds like you've worked out a way to make your panels last a bit longer, but 6 to 8 years is definitely not average. Is your air quality there not so great? The air purifier and dehumidifier definitely probably help. Maybe you'd be having dead spots in your panels develop too if you don't do the things you do? Keeping windows closed probably helps a lot.

 

[Robert D]

Almost no house in Uruguay has central A/C, only commercial or office buildings.
Split A/C is the norm and we use them around 20 days a year, climate is mild and for winter heating we use radiating heated floors.
Early autumn, late spring and most summer days it's just open windows.

Why not keep windows shut and run the ac? I'm just used to living the way we do here. Even in the hottest summer, our energy bill never exceeds about $350, and our house is 3200 Sq ft with partially finished basement, so about 4000 finished. We run the ac 24/7.
I guess your ac units there aren't as efficient?

 

[Robert D]

There is a reason that the US is on top of CO2 emmisions list (funnely enough it still looks like a smile...). Anyway let's not turn this discution into a climate thing - the extra power ML takes (not to mention all but class D amplifiers and so forth.) The issue at hand is to find solutions to the issue og Guynemer and his constraints keeping in mind we would like the world to exist. On that note happy new year to all

No, the US IS NOT at the top. Countries like China are.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/co2-emissions-by-country