The DON / redux

timm,

Again I agree with most of what you say.

Seems to me some folks are missing or ignoring the critical, underlying issues here.

First off, regardless of proof (if any) that would indicate that the election was "swayed" by Russian activity, there appears to be a consensus amongst the intelligence community that a "cyber war" to influence the election did occur. Hence the reason for having a congressional investigation supported by senior Republican Senators. I find this to be abhorrent with grave consequences moving forward unless we investigate and find ways to make sure the Russians (or other countries) do not meddle in our democratic process in the future. There is nothing "inherently wrong" with finding out what actually occurred. Seems like facts and the truth are no longer in vogue.

This is much larger issue for this country. And per a recent CNN poll (if you believe these things anymore) whether this was a concern split on party lines, 86% of Dems said it was compared to 26% on the Rep side. I would think we would all be concerned regardless of party affiliation.

Second, as Brad and others have observed, the "bitch" is gone. So are the Clintons. And it seems meaningless to me to continue to comment on what may have allegedly occurred in the past regarding "current" events. It doesn't matter anymore. We have to move forward with what we have and not continue to revisit the past to somehow justify / explain what is taking place in the present. And on that point, the fact that DT threw the CIA under the bus and is questioning their integrity and competence scare the hell out of me once DT takes office in four weeks. Again, the importance of facts and the truth somehow taking a back seat to other considerations.

Best,

Gordon

I agree with most of what you say as well Gordon. But I think history is important as it helps you learn going forward. I'm not interested in beating a dead dog. Considering the push to get electors to flip - I just think there is still more on the table until Dec 20. And I think recognizing the challenge of the vote...democratic proces started by the farce called Jill Stein only to be furthered by the Democrats is worth calling out. Especially considering how they called Trump out as if he were not patriotic if he were to not accept the election results.

This isn't about reality. It is about perception.

timm,

Your closing sentence is prophetic and, IMHO, the reason we are in our current political environment of dsyfunctionality and distrust.

Hyperbole and our collective inability to communicate in a meaningful, productive manner has ascended over reason, respect and common sense.

And both parties are to blame.

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

timm,

Your closing sentence is prophetic and, IMHO, the reason we are in our current political environment of dsyfunctionality and distrust.

Hyperbole and our collective inability to communicate in a meaningful, productive manner has ascended over reason, respect and common sense.

And both parties are to blame.

Gordon

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Agreed. It stops everything. The thinking is across the board. So a change has been needed for a long time. The fact that democrats and republicans dislike him probably equally is a good sign in my opinion.

Gordon Gray said:

timm,

Again I agree with most of what you say.

Seems to me some folks are missing or ignoring the critical, underlying issues here.

First off, regardless of proof (if any) that would indicate that the election was "swayed" by Russian activity, there appears to be a consensus amongst the intelligence community that a "cyber war" to influence the election did occur. Hence the reason for having a congressional investigation supported by senior Republican Senators. I find this to be abhorrent with grave consequences moving forward unless we investigate and find ways to make sure the Russians (or other countries) do not meddle in our democratic process in the future. There is nothing "inherently wrong" with finding out what actually occurred. Seems like facts and the truth are no longer in vogue.

This is much larger issue for this country. And per a recent CNN poll (if you believe these things anymore) whether this was a concern split on party lines, 86% of Dems said it was compared to 26% on the Rep side. I would think we would all be concerned regardless of party affiliation.

Second, as Brad and others have observed, the "bitch" is gone. So are the Clintons. And it seems meaningless to me to continue to comment on what may have allegedly occurred in the past regarding "current" events. It doesn't matter anymore. We have to move forward with what we have and not continue to revisit the past to somehow justify / explain what is taking place in the present. And on that point, the fact that DT threw the CIA under the bus and is questioning their integrity and competence scare the hell out of me once DT takes office in four weeks. Again, the importance of facts and the truth somehow taking a back seat to other considerations.

Best,

Gordon

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Gordon, I can assure you I have used the term "bitch" and many worse to describe Hillary in private conversation.
That said, I don't think I have disrespected her in a public forum with that type of term.

I may have called her evil, a criminal, dishonest and underhanded and I will own that.

My bad Brad,

It was someone else.

Sincere apologies.

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

My bad Brad,

It was someone else.

Sincere apologies.

Gordon

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Me neither...... the lowest I went in the name calling dept was 'Crooked Hillary' ... just because I think it is funny..... More importantly.... how are those MBLs treating you?? Do they really create more space than your old summits??

timm,

Given the 360 degree output from the tweeter and mid range pod (cutoff at 2K) there is substantially more space, dimensionality, etc. than one gets from the Summit or any other ML product for that matter.

Some may not like (one often reads that the presentation is an acquired taste) but this will likely be my last speaker. If I do switch, it will be moving upward in the MBL line.

There's been a pair of 116's in Rosewood on the Gon for several months (legacy model like mine) for $8K and it still hasn't sold. Someone who has the guts to purchase is going to be one happy camper. In a small to medium size room, they are magical.

Best and Happy Holidays,

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

timm,

Given the 360 degree output from the tweeter and mid range pod (cutoff at 2K) there is substantially more space, dimensionality, etc. than one gets from the Summit or any other ML product for that matter.

Some may not like (one often reads that the presentation is an acquired taste) but this will likely be my last speaker. If I do switch, it will be moving upward in the MBL line.

There's been a pair of 116's in Rosewood on the Gon for several months (legacy model like mine) for $8K and it still hasn't sold. Someone who has the guts to purchase is going to be one happy camper. In a small to medium size room, they are magical.

Best and Happy Holidays,

Gordon

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Yes - sounds good.. I have had a 3 year engagement with some magnepan 20.7s... These are ginormous - as is the soundstage they produce... the 20.7 is probably the best speaker I have heard... That is all subjective of course....... I of course love that boxless sound .... massive soundstage.... and with the 20.7 - soundstage and enough bass to never feel the need for a sub.... ....

This is way better than talking about politics!!!!

Agreed timm,

Maybe if all politicians were like speakers, we all could have a wonderful conversation.

FWIW, one of the nice things about the 116's is they play "large" but are about the size of a Wilson Watt / Puppy.

timm said:

This is way better than talking about politics!!!!

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I am going to have to ruin the fun. The media made a good bit of noise about the "fake news" stories that came out during the election cycle. But is fake news on some obscure website as bad as more mainstream media reporting stories, but then not covering those same stories nearly as well when the actual facts are known? For example, I was seeing on TV and reading in papers such as the Washington Post stories concerning the Mississippi African American church that was burned down and had "Vote Trump" spray painted on the side shortly after it occurred. An arrest has now been made for that incident. It ended up being a black man who is a member of the very same church that he set on fire. Or how about the story of Yasmin Seweid, the young woman who claimed that Trump supporters attacked her on a subway, yelling for her to "get out of the country". She has since been arrested for making a false report to the police.

It's not that the original story should be ignored. But I don't think either story I mentioned above, and there are other similar stories as well, would have made national news in the manner in which they were covered, had it not been for there apparent links to Trump. So once the truth comes out and it wasn't some "deplorable" that was responsible, shouldn't that even be a bigger news story? But the truthful part of the story is never covered as much, nor does it make the front page, like the original story. The factual story is not the center of discussion on the TV shows or the topic of discussion in the opinion section of the newspapers. I suspect that many more people know of the original story, but don't learn the truth when it comes out later. Is this because it doesn't fit the narrative the media would want the public to believe. How is that not just as bad as fake news stories circulating around on facebook? Either one potentially leaves the consumer with a false impression.

I agree Kevin.... I think this concept of 'fake news' - which I think was brought up - or made popular by Hillary as one of her many reasons for losing..... as a topic ... is 'fake'... So the 'fake news' is a 'fake story' about 'fake news' to give the impression or perception that again - something was corrupt in our 'electoral process'..... Since these news channels are now their own entity.... for profit organizations.... This no longer becomes about 'news' it becomes about ratings - people's editorials.... personalities..... None of this is news related... So each organization be it CNN, FOX etc.... tries to pick up viewership based on ideology as opposed to actual news.... So, the news, isn't the story... The opinion that my favorite personality has of a news item - becomes the news.... How absurd is that... So is what FOX or CNN say 'news' or is it your personality's opinion of the news.... People then take that opinion - regardless of fact - and continue to re-iterate the opinion - as if it were true... The more you say it - the more it is true..... Sorry, I don't buy into that.... and I am sure many others do not either....

A couple of items as examples: 'CNN pundit liken O'Reilly's race comments to apartheid rhetoric'....Ergo - Bill O'Reilly must be a racist and an angry white man - just like Bill Clinton said!!.... When Trump won..... CNN: 'This is WhiteLash!!'..... Isn't it now obvious and news? No - it isn't... It is opinion which tries to get pushed and said multiple different ways.... CNN - in multiple terms... stories.... angles... that the Election was obviously because of 'white people'.... Bill Clinton said ... 'Angry white men'..... CNN pundit: 'WhiteLash'..... A conservative personality - Bill O'Reilly more or less favors or speaks apartheid rhetoric..... This goes on and on and on and on ... until .....It is THE NEWS!! and it is fact... and it is obvious.... I just gave you multiple statements by a 'news agency' all based on opinion... all based on seat of your pants comments.... All trying to direct public opinion in a certain way.... There is plenty on both sides .... but - seriously, this is not news - Does it make it 'fake' ? Well it is someone's opinion.... If someone is gullible enough to believe it is news.... well I can't help them. I am sure both sides do it... I just think the left gets wrapped up in emotion..... and emotion is not a good place to start when you are supposed to be stating facts and news...

All true gentlemen. The line between fact and fiction has become very blurry. I believe that NPR tries to walk that fine line (unbiased and let their listeners decide) which is why I put credence in what they report.

But I must say this. DT claimed that Obama was not a US citizen for years and many Republicans believe that is true today. And they will for the rest of their lives. And I don't recall any news organizations that went the extra mile to do their research and debunk the claim.

We live in a very confused, strange world where facts simply don't matter anymore. As timm said previously, it's all about perception and the news "fitting" the individuals biases.

Scumurculum said:

I'll take your word for it.

Still that is a violent word to use. Bad things happen with rhetoric like that.

What next?.....lock those actors up?

People are within their rights to politely ask the college to make a decision. That is called democracy.

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Nope! We send them down under to you Aussies! :rocker:, Course ya'll will just send them back like the other unwanted Islamic might be terrorists that you claim not to handle anymore and, our current Chief Obama says bring them on!! Sorry, I have lost all respect for Australia this month...I give you kudo's for stopping the terror attack on Christmas in your home land...guess what? More to come, Australia is a soft target fool!! You are just a testing ground for the radicals, you will soon see, sorry for your losses in advance.

Freakin' liberal crap will get folks killed, hello? Germany. France? Great Britain? Jesus, they kill their own... The time has come to shut down all immigration PERIOD!!

stuwee said:

Australia is a soft target fool!! Freakin' liberal crap will get folks killed. The time has come to shut down all immigration PERIOD!!

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Hi Craig,

Insulting well meaning people who have different opinions than yours and making absolute statements about all potential immigrants is way over the top.

As OP, I would request that you "dial it back" so this thread (like the first) does not get closed.

Please try to control your emotions.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Gordon

stuwee said:

Nope! We send them down under to you Aussies! :rocker:, Course ya'll will just send them back like the other unwanted Islamic might be terrorists that you claim not to handle anymore and, our current Chief Obama says bring them on!! Sorry, I have lost all respect for Australia this month...I give you kudo's for stopping the terror attack on Christmas in your home land...guess what? More to come, Australia is a soft target fool!! You are just a testing ground for the radicals, you will soon see, sorry for your losses in advance.

Freakin' liberal crap will get folks killed, hello? Germany. France? Great Britain? Jesus, they kill their own... The time has come to shut down all immigration PERIOD!!

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You sound like one of those uncles at Christmas who always drinks to much eggnog and tries to start arguments about politics then wonders why everyone is avoiding him.

Unfortunately, seems to be the case.

Way too much anger.

Scumurculum said:

You sound like one of those uncles at Christmas who always drinks to much eggnog and tries to start arguments about politics then wonders why everyone is avoiding him.

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Rubbish, You have no power here! Begone, before somebody drops a house on you, too!

Not an attack, just a fact, I do wish you well sir, I hope you have a long and happy life. Funny how the left just can not move on, so much whining and pointing fingers. I stand by what I say, I'm very much looking forward to 2017 and the greatness of the United States of America. Out of respect to Gordon, I will bow out quietly, Peace, Craig

Thank you Craig for your cooperation.

It was oh so pleasant to make it through 2 days of christmas celebration and meals with family and friends and have no real political discussion.

I made only one comment after someone mentioned the current president that all political sides found funny.

It appears that President Obama will be writing his AUTObiography in his new office that is to be in the garage of the home they have rented in DC once he leaves office. Granted they are doing renovations to the house and I doubt he will have snow shovels, rakes and bicycles hanging in his office space.