Floorspikes

[tsmooth]

Tonight I just relized the importance of floorspikes my Martin Logans. I was doing a little bit of vertical tilting to try to get each panel exactly in line, so I decided to screw in the spikes for the first time. WOW, the same Jack Johnson CD that I just played all the way through took on a whole new level of clarity. On one of the songs I was able to pick out the placement of one off his little hand drums that previously blended in with the music. Probably common knowledge, but to those of you who have their speakers sitting on bare carpet/floor need to get their spikes in. :music:

 

[Craig]

Were you playing Jack Johnson's new "Sleeping Through the Static"? That's a great album and brings out the best in these speakers.

I think it also helps to elevate the speakers off the floor and this of course is one of the things spikes help to do.

 

[amey01]

Next you should try some outriggers.......

 

[Dreamer]

Or if you don't want to shell out th emoney for Outriggers, you can just get a set of the 1.5" spikes that the Outriggers use, and put them under your speakers instead of the stock ML spikes. I've done this, and it's a huge improvement, especially in tightened bass response, and cleaner highs.

The company is called OregonDV, and here are their websites:


OregonDV Speaker Spikes

Outriggers

I've got the gold-colored brass 1.5" spikes under my Sequel and Scenarios, and their 1.75" spikes under my Velodyne subwoofer, and they make a big improvement over "factory" spikes...

The big advantage of the outriggers over just the plain pikes is two-fold. First, they look VERY cool, and second, they allow for much easier adjustment of the height and tilt of the spikes, because the spikes are not directly under the speakers.

But with a little creative engineering, the regular spikes work really well too. You can get them to match the threads of the stock spikes, and I use washersbetween the speakers and the tops of the spikes to adjust the height and tilt of my speakers. Works great!

If your listening room is on a solid concrete slab floor, you'll notice the improvements in the bass more with spikes. If you're on a sprung wood floor, you'll probably notice more improvement in the mids and highs. But no matter what, you WILL notice an improvement with better spikes.

--Richard

 

[tsmooth]

Thanks for the recommendation, when I make the move up to Vistas I will look into that for sure.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Richard, as I understand it, the whole point of the spikes is to transfer unwanted speaker vibration (energy) to the floor, thereby allowing the speaker to send a less congested soundwave. If that is the case, then I think just having the spikes, as you do, would be more efficient at doing that than by placing the speakers on the outriggers. In the latter case, there would not be as efficient energy transfer to the floor, as energy must transfer from the speaker to the outriggers and then to the spikes. What do you think? Also, do you know what it is about the new spikes that work better than the original, other than the ability to adjust over a wider range?

 

[Dreamer]

In the latter case, there would not be as efficient energy transfer to the floor, as energy must transfer from the speaker to the outriggers and then to the spikes. What do you think? Also, do you know what it is about the new spikes that work better than the original, other than the ability to adjust over a wider range?

Well, I've never had Outriggers under my speakers, for a number of reasons, the first of which is price...

Although I agree in theory with your assessment about the Outriggers, I know several people who use them, and they think they sound better than just spikes. Having never heard them myself, I can't say one way or another.

I think the reason why these spikes sound better in my speakers than the original, factory ML spikes (which are essentially pointy-bottomed screws) is because they have a MOt more surface area in contact with the speakers. The factory spikes that came with my Sequels are just threaded rods with pointy ends--they screw into the sockets on the bottoms of the speakers, so their only contact with the speakers is the screw threads.

The new OregonDV spikes are about 1.25" across at their tops, so when screwed in tight, not only is the screw thread contacting the speakers, but the entire top of the cone/spike is also snug against the speaker case. More surface area=better energy transfer.

They are also significantly higher than the stock spikes, and I think lifting the speakers up off the floor more also helps, because it reduced bounced-back resonance from the floor.

At least that's my theory and I'm sticking to it...

--Richard

 

[Nik]

I love the Nordost floor spikes (points) that a fellow canadian member purchase and then had custom made since they wouldn't work with the ML threading. I would love to get me a set of those for my MLs!
nik

 

[amey01]

Well, I've never had Outriggers under my speakers, for a number of reasons, the first of which is price...

Although I agree in theory with your assessment about the Outriggers, I know several people who use them, and they think they sound better than just spikes. Having never heard them myself, I can't say one way or another.

I think the reason why these spikes sound better in my speakers than the original, factory ML spikes (which are essentially pointy-bottomed screws) is because they have a MOt more surface area in contact with the speakers. The factory spikes that came with my Sequels are just threaded rods with pointy ends--they screw into the sockets on the bottoms of the speakers, so their only contact with the speakers is the screw threads.

The new OregonDV spikes are about 1.25" across at their tops, so when screwed in tight, not only is the screw thread contacting the speakers, but the entire top of the cone/spike is also snug against the speaker case. More surface area=better energy transfer.

They are also significantly higher than the stock spikes, and I think lifting the speakers up off the floor more also helps, because it reduced bounced-back resonance from the floor.

At least that's my theory and I'm sticking to it...

--Richard

I do not know what's going on here scientifically (I don't think anyone does) - but I will say that outriggers (to me) sound better.

I always thought the idea of spikes was NOT to transfer energy to the floor - to isolate the speakers as much as possible.

This is achieved equally well by regular floor spikes...
...BUT...outriggers allow more stability to be achieved meaning better coupling to the floor, less vibration, less movement, etc. They also allow you to make adjustments from the top.


For the record - I don't run outriggers either - due to price. What I do do however is run only three spikes per speaker - not four - three spikes will *ALWAYS* be stable, no matter how poorly you adjust them. I certainly think I achieve good results doing that.

 

[tsmooth]

This is achieved equally well by regular floor spikes...
...BUT...outriggers allow more stability to be achieved meaning better coupling to the floor, less vibration, less movement, etc. They also allow you to make adjustments from the top.

I would have to second that. I made a note to hold my hand on the box (during music playback) before I made the spike change. Afterwards, the box was much more silent and I could hardly feel the vibrations. Can't say for outriggers, but if people are buying them it must be some sort of difference.

 

[Nik]

Here is the pic of what I was talking about- love the look!
Nik

 

[tsmooth]

Better than making a nice hole in the hardwood. I think it looks excellent as well.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Black Diamond Racing jumbo pits

Once I installed these between the spikes and the wood floor, at the recommend of Rich, difference was not subtle.

There are probably less expensive devices that do the same thing. However, based on personal experience, highly recommended.

GG

 

[MiTT]

Once I installed these between the spikes and the wood floor, at the recommend of Rich, difference was not subtle.

There are probably less expensive devices that do the same thing. However, based on personal experience, highly recommended.

GG

Gordon, I don't have any of the BDR stuff under my speakers, but I do have a LOT of BDR Cones and Pucks under my equipment and can second your recommendation as to their benefit - they are not subtle in their effectiveness. Their record clamp on my VPI table is a stunner too!

 

[music again]

BDR Pits/Pucks/Cones

Gordon, I don't have any of the BDR stuff under my speakers, but I do have a LOT of BDR Cones and Pucks under my equipment and can second your recommendation as to their benefit - they are not subtle in their effectiveness. Their record clamp on my VPI table is a stunner too!

Do the cones have screws in them so they screw into the pucks, or no screws, the pucks just sit on top of the pucks?

It looks like you use three of these under your pre amp. So do you put say two in the front and one on the back in a triangle shape, thus not using the supplied feet with the piece, but the pucks/cones support the piece alone? Would you ever use something under the four feet supplied by the manufacturer?

I have the Music Direct catalog and they, and everyone else for that matter, do a lousy job of displaying and explaining EXACTLY how to use these. I understand the pits are all the way drilled (threaded) through, while the pucks are half way drilled through, allowing for the "pit" on the one side to be used with a spike.

In general, I think most every "high end" company supplying various "accessories" could sell a lot more product if they actually showed decent pictures of the product from all angles, and even more importantly, showed the product in various states of use. As it is, one must guess how to use the product. At the prices of some of these "tweeks", most of us "new" people are probably not willing to take the chance. Maybe it's just me. Pictures are worth more than the hipe.

 

[Brian_74]

Or if you don't want to shell out th emoney for Outriggers, you can just get a set of the 1.5" spikes that the Outriggers use, and put them under your speakers instead of the stock ML spikes. I've done this, and it's a huge improvement, especially in tightened bass response, and cleaner highs.

The company is called OregonDV, and here are their websites:


OregonDV Speaker Spikes

Outriggers

I've got the gold-colored brass 1.5" spikes under my Sequel and Scenarios, and their 1.75" spikes under my Velodyne subwoofer, and they make a big improvement over "factory" spikes...

--Richard

For those that use the OregonDV spikes, did you go with 1.5" for the rear and 2.15" for the front as suggested on their website for proper imaging tilt. Is this compatible with ML since the panel is already tilted?