What's up with the(relative) low-cost of SL3's?

[miles ahead]

I was 'nudged' into starting this thread because of two distinct things..1) My own pair of SL 3's just had a panel go out a few days ago-snap,crackle,pop-"bye-bye!" If I wanted to get a replacement panel,$600 plus... The amazing thing is that while going over the gon's prices-as well as other sources-it looks like I could get another used PAIR for around twice the cost of new panels. Which brings me to...2) Aren't the SL3's the 'best' speaker out there for it's price,or what? And not to kill the 'golden goose',but what accounts for the huge difference between what the speaker does/can do under the best circumstances and what it's being sold for? Is it's size the sole determining fact above all others that has made this incredible sounding speaker the bargain that it is today on the used market?
Ironically,size WAS the story for me. I needed to find space for a record rack,and the space I once had near one speaker disappeared as a result. Equipment,plus lps,plus bookshelves..you get the idea. And since my 'working man's' apartment isn't getting any larger,I've decided that now is an appropriate time to-'gulp'-downsize a little. Hey,I said a little! ANY ML speaker is gonna be better-served in as large a space as possible,but it does seem that the speaker in question is particularly fussy about having 'air' around it. So-size,then? The 'footprint' that it makes? They're not selling for a litle more than used Totem monitors(good grief!) because they're comparable speakers! So,what do the judges say? Inquring minds want to know!

 

[User211]

Great point miles. Here's a few thoughts...

1) It's an old speaker now. No one ever paid top dollar for old in audio, apart from some exceptions (I've seen some crazy prices for Western Electric gear on ebay - very old cinema tube amps, crazy old horns, 70 year old transformers you name it... suspect the Chinese have something to do with the prices).

2) Most realise that an old electrostat will probably need some work.

3) They are big - but that isn't too much of a problem in a lot of American houses.

4) It's a few generations of ML old now. So how can it be any good? The newer ones must be much better

5) Many who enter the new hi-fi market in the 20s and 30s possibly have no idea of what a good speaker it was/is. They simply have never heard a pair.

Of course, it still is an excellent speaker in it's own right. And whilst I am not saying the newer ones that might be regarded as equivalent in the range don't better it, it is insane value for money as you point out, even bearing in mind point 2).

To be honest, I could quite happily live with a pair in primo condition - if memory serves me well. Plenty here still do, of course.

In fact, if you've got your "head together", you can assemble killer systems for very, very little indeed (compared to the original list price), if you know what you are doing.

 

[akm3]

I think the prices are lower because they are factoring in a required new panel purchase in the near term.

Kind of like selling a car right before a major service is due.

 

[danman]

There is nothing wrong with the sound of the older models at all! New panels on those things will bring them to a level better than anything a box speaker can do for the same price and more!

I replaced a 10000$ pair of JmLabs that were bought in 2000 for my Quests. However, mine were like brand new but the sound blows them away by a mile.........

 

[amey01]

Great point miles. Here's a few thoughts...

1) It's an old speaker now. No one ever paid top dollar for old in audio, apart from some exceptions (I've seen some crazy prices for Western Electric gear on ebay - very old cinema tube amps, crazy old horns, 70 year old transformers you name it... suspect the Chinese have something to do with the prices).

2) Most realise that an old electrostat will probably need some work.

3) They are big - but that isn't too much of a problem in a lot of American houses.

4) It's a few generations of ML old now. So how can it be any good? The newer ones must be much better

5) Many who enter the new hi-fi market in the 20s and 30s possibly have no idea of what a good speaker it was/is. They simply have never heard a pair.

Of course, it still is an excellent speaker in it's own right. And whilst I am not saying the newer ones that might be regarded as equivalent in the range don't better it, it is insane value for money as you point out, even bearing in mind point 2).

To be honest, I could quite happily live with a pair in primo condition - if memory serves me well. Plenty here still do, of course.

In fact, if you've got your "head together", you can assemble killer systems for very, very little indeed (compared to the original list price), if you know what you are doing.

I'd also add to this that some of them do look tatty - the Nextel finish really doesn't hold up too well to abuse and many are marked and scratched.

Also regarding point number 2, most people also realise that electrostats have to be looked after - the older the speaker, the more owners, the more it has been moved around, the more chance for abuse. Nobody wants an abused electrostat!

But yes, excellent speaker.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Miles, Justin, et al,

Having owned the SL3's for some four (4) years or so before upgrading to the Summit, I offer the following observations.

1) The Summit is clearly a better transducer, due in part, to the powered woofers and improved panel technologly (read micro perf and rigidity).

2) The SL3 was / is an outstanding value and provides one with a substantial amount of what ML does best, assuming appropriate electronics, placement, cabling, etc. I did do some minor mods such as installing "road kill" in the interior of the bass module and on the bass drivers. Road kill is a vibration attenuation product used in car audio. I also upgraded the stock spikes to a much more robust product and optimized the vertical rake angle. All of these mods were quite audible, quite reasonable price wise, and easy to do.

If one can find a pair for $1K + with panels that are in good condition, it is, IMHO, a no brainer and frankly, one of the best speaker bargains available today.

GG

 

[gordonmenninger]

I am also an SL3 owner since about 2 years, and I totally agree with all the posts here... To my ears, they blow pretty much everything I have heard out of the water, especially in the midrang. Bass is pretty much nonexistent, but that is what my 2 Fathom subs are for
Whenever I listen to music I ask myself "how much better can it really get?" - and that is really all I am asking to get out of my audio system!

I agree that for the money, they are the probably the best bargain around. A little tricky setting up, but when properly placed, pure sonic bliss.

gordon

 

[Tosh]

There's a pair with newer clear spar panels on Audiogon now for $1k obo(!) not too far from us, which I wish I could sneak into the house to store away (as I just got some in December).

I think the low prices are a result of their size (for shipping purposes too) and age, as people suspect they might need new panels in a couple of years. But I specifically searched for some that were from the last year made (mine are from May 2000), so I hope they don't need new panels for 4-5 years. I LOVE them and actually wish I had gotten them new for the ~$3k they were then.

But Miles Ahead, "snap, crackle,pop" isn't the failure mode I expect from an aging panel. Are you sure it isn't something else?

 

[danman]

Your panels sound good? They are only 9 years old. I am positive Martin Logan developed speakers that last more than 9 years before needing a revamp or they would go out of business eventually! Unless poorly treated this should be true.

Change them when your ears tell you. Some people on this site are obsessed with changing them based on time when they say that they sound excellent! I don't get it! It is as if they are missing out on something. I know a few that did this and noticed hardly no difference and realised that maybe their panels were ok from the start. Either they will let go or you will notice bass bloat that will over power the stators!

 

[gordonmenninger]

so what is a tell tale sign that the panels are about to go bad???

 

[Horchem1972]

Bad Panels

Usually one will have a drastic drop in SPL over the other one.Another sign is they will bottom out or buzz at certain frequencies.

 

[Tosh]

I would describe typical failure due to aging or deterioration as a slow loss of efficiency, noticed especially in the highs (from what I've read here). Another possible failure is the adhesives letting go, permitting a buzz.

But my panels will also buzz at a certain frequency at very loud levels, a bit dependent on how tight the rails clamp the panels, but I haven't been so motivated to determine the exact frequency. Otherwise they sound great (recording permitting).