What's the difference between Summit and Summit X?

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I think the bass from the floor problem is a room thing mostly. With the woofer so close to the floor, we will excite room-modes. For the CLX, the bass excites room modes in a different manner.

Dynamic bass drivers have small surface area but large excursions. This literally punches the air in a very forced, concentrated manner. It is much more audible outside the room than planar bass is. It is VERY penetrating. The Descent I had used to drive my wife insane one floor up in the house. I think she is more than glad it has gone!:devil:
 
Now if we could only fix that bass coming from the bottom of the speaker problem.......

Could always copy Purist, who copied ML. Only fair to complete the circle.

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Found these at Munich Ken if you recall, and they did sound pretty decent. Though not dipole bass - they had a closed back.

I like the ML/Maggie bass idea with the Thigpen. I'd like to hear that system more than any other owned by forum members to be honest. Way cool - I'd just love to hear it and see if it really works.
 
Nice, Justin. That's exactly what I was thinking of. I am sure Jonfo could design a stellar setup like that.
 
Nice, Justin. That's exactly what I was thinking of. I am sure Jonfo could design a stellar setup like that.
Reckon so. Easy to beat this example just by making a very rigid frame and using a dipole dynamic bass driver array. The ESL panel was wobbly to say the least!!!
 
Nice, Justin. That's exactly what I was thinking of. I am sure Jonfo could design a stellar setup like that.

Heh, for sure ;)

But no dipole bass, as that really kills the output. Best alignment (after an Infinite Baffle) would be a transmission line arrangement for a column of 7" or 8" drivers. Run up to around 315Hz with a really steep crossover, that would have incredible mid-bass punch and dynamics.

the larger panel speakers definitely need more support and could even do with additional front to back acoustic separation to minimize cancellations at lower frequencies.

Instead of those wide panels shown, I'd use the HF panels from a CLX in my hybrid system. Those have plenty of output in the range covered.
 
http://www.analoguealchemy.com/sound_master-1.html

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion-rev3.htm

Very good dipole bass design - reported on these at Silvertone 2012. Very good bass indeed perhaps exciting a room mode at the show. I think you want dipole bass with a dipole panel for consistency of approach & therefore sound across the frequency spectrum.

Just an opinion. Subjectively little on the planet beats an Apogee bass panel for bass performance IMHO, apart from sheer volume output but then I am completely and utterly jaded:D:ROFL:
 
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Uhm, I would not hold the Orions out as a 'good' example, there are many pans of that speaker. Personally, never heard them, so can't say myself.

However, there's no question that dipole speakers trying to operate below 200Hz have serious issues with low-frequency performance, since physics comes into play once the length of wave is greater than 1/2 and really falls off at 1/4 the distance between front and back acoustic sources on the dipole, the sound cancels or at minimum starts introducing comb-filtering.

While pleasant dipole systems exist, and your Apogees are definitely one of the few out there, they all run out of gas at some point due to this phenomena. No cheating mother nature ;)

I do disagree with the position that "ou want dipole bass with a dipole panel for consistency of approach & therefore sound across the frequency spectrum", as below the Schroeder frequency (typically around 300Hz in most home rooms), the modal response dominates, and how one energizes the room at those frequencies is insensitive to dipole vs monopole. What I think most people like about dipole bass as compared to sealed or vented monopoles is the lower driver distortion and Q a dipole arrangement can have.

But truly low distortion bass can be had in copious quantities with an Infinite Baffle alignment, as it bring the benefits of equal air-pressure loading, lower Q etc of dipole but with none of the downsides of cancellation. I've heard a lot of expensive bass systems, none can touch a good IB.

For mid-bass, I also still prefer either a large array of sealed drivers operating well below their distortion limits such as my center line array, or a stack of small drivers in transmission line alignments, which also deliver very clean and consistent output.
 
I think I've mentioned this before in other threads, but I do plan to someday test my theory that the ideal ESL setup is 100% infinite baffle for all drivers, including the ESLs.

My plan is to mount three CLX speakers into an in-room wall, then fill the space behind with acoustically absorbent materials (mostly for HF reflection damping). The back-wave space will be large enough so that for the frequencies covered >60Hz, it is effectively an IB.

Without comb-filtering all dipoles generate, this should finally let me hear the pure clean signal I know ESLs can put out.

Biggest challenge is figuring out how to provide the back-wave space an equalizing pressure from the subwoofer, as one does not want to modulate the ESL panels with the bass frequencies from just one side. A passive radiator in the dividing wall or some other approach might get me there, lots of modeling left to do on that.

But this will be a $50K or more remodel and upgrade, so it will have to wait a year or two.
 
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