What is transparent like ML, dynamic like a horn, and disappears like a mini monitor?

[tonepub]

Answer:

The Wilson X-2/series 2.

I never thought I would have said this, but after spending a day at Dave Wilson's house listening to the X-2, the bar for realistic music reproduction has been raised for me.

Most of the time when I've heard Wilson at shows, they were always turned up too loud for me to appreciate, but Dave Wilson really knows how to put together an awesome demo!

His listening room in his house is 30 x 40 (!!) and everything is dialed in.

System was ARC Ref preamp, ARC CD player, Basis table and a pair of VTL Zigfried monoblocks all wired with Transparent.

The bad news is that a pair will set you back $150k.

I don't think I'll be stepping up to that plate yet, but it was very exciting to sit in the big chair and just listen. (but I do know what
custom color I'd have mine painted...)

Whether you think this would be your cup of tea or not, if you have a Wilson dealer in your area and they have the X-2/series 2, it's worth the experience!

Watch for the Dave Wilson interview in issue 16....

 

[Bernard]

System was ARC Ref preamp, ARC CD player, Basis table

Which Basis ?

 

[tonepub]

It was a customized model....

Can't remember what arm he was using, it was a linear track, but not
an ET or Clear. I can find out though.

 

[Joey_V]

Jeff,

That is an awesome opportunity not only to sit in the chair, but to talk with Dave Wilson. I have always liked Wilson speakers, especially when tuned right.

Joey :rocker:

EDIT:

Crap, I just realized you heard the series 2... did he have the series 1 right next to them for demo purposes?

 

[Bernard]

It was a customized model....

Can't remember what arm he was using, it was a linear track, but not
an ET or Clear. I can find out though.

No, it's okay, don't go to the trouble. I was just curious.

 

[Audiophiliac]

I will own Wilsons one day. Probably not the X-2....more like Sophia. But I agree. When set up properly (which isnt THAT hard to do....there is a method for doing it that is surprisingly simple), they do amazing things. Of course, not everyone is amazed by the same things, but for me, Dave and his engineering department (which still begins and ends with Dave's ears), come up with some top notch products. Q.C. is over the top too....some of the tolerances on crossover parts and circuits are in the .0x% range. The finish department was inspired by the Ferrari plant in Maranello. The paint process is unreal. Also, the material used for the enclosures is radical. Most people dont realize the R&D that has gone into the "X" and "M" materials.

I took a tour of the factory last year, and was thoroughly impressed. Of course, I would also love to have a room with ML speakers in it too.

 

[tonepub]

Sophia 2's are coming here for review in July, they just scheduled a pair to be built for us.

I've always liked this speaker a lot and if finances permit, I will probably add a pair to our studio. Not abandoning my ML's at all, just nice to have both as a reference.

And to answer Joey's question, yes, Dave W did have the ver.1 and ver.2 speakers in the room side by side to compare, which was pretty awesome.

The most fun part of the visit was to see just how much of a music lover
Dave is! It really comes through in his designs...

 

[Joey_V]

Sophia 2's are coming here for review in July, they just scheduled a pair to be built for us.

I've always liked this speaker a lot and if finances permit, I will probably add a pair to our studio. Not abandoning my ML's at all, just nice to have both as a reference.

And to answer Joey's question, yes, Dave W did have the ver.1 and ver.2 speakers in the room side by side to compare, which was pretty awesome.

The most fun part of the visit was to see just how much of a music lover
Dave is! It really comes through in his designs...

You got pm!

 

[longhorn]

Sophia 2's are coming here for review in July, they just scheduled a pair to be built for us.

I've always liked this speaker a lot and if finances permit, I will probably add a pair to our studio. Not abandoning my ML's at all, just nice to have both as a reference.

And to answer Joey's question, yes, Dave W did have the ver.1 and ver.2 speakers in the room side by side to compare, which was pretty awesome.

The most fun part of the visit was to see just how much of a music lover
Dave is! It really comes through in his designs...

How would you compare the midranges of the Wilson compared to the MLs? I have heard WP8s and when dialed in they sound awesome. The sweetspot is narrow,then again its how it was dialed in. Beauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutiful Burgundy finish,it was inspired of a Porsche color. Nice. Many audiophiles trash Wilson without hearing them,but if you find a cool dealer who allows you to bring your own music and will LEAVE YOU ALONE,you will soon forget you are listening to speakers....................Of course you can say the same for MLs too.

 

[eknuds01]

Is the Alexandria X-2?

 

[Joey_V]

Is the Alexandria X-2?

The ones that Jeff heard are the version 2 of the Alexandria X2... so it is actually the Alexandria X2 v2.

He also had the newly replaced X2 v1 right next to the X2 v2 and he had Dave Wilson's a/b speaker switcher to compare the two speakers. I asked him how the two differed and Jeff told me that the X2 v2 surpassed the other in sheer realism! A feat that is somewhat tough to swallow if you read all the prior reviews of the X2 v1.

Joey

 

[Bernard]

Jeff, considering your formidable picture-taking skills, I was wondering if you took any pictures.

 

[tonepub]

I took a few shots in the factory, but I didn't want to pester Dave and his wife to turn their living room into a photo studio!

To answer the question about the midrange ability of the Wilsons vs. ML, it is quite good. My problem with Wilsons that I've heard at shows was that they were always too loud or paired up with electronics that were too forward for my taste. Much like the ML Summit, which to me can also sound too forward or bright when used with less than awesome electronics, the same is true with the Wilson speakers.

I heard WP8's at CES with Lamm tube electronics and they were wonderful. Last year heard the Sophia 2 in one room with big VTL tube monoblocks and they were great too, very musical. Same thing at RMAF last year, heard them with Aesthetix gear. Heard Maxx 2's with BAT solid state gear and it was too analytical sounding for me.

What really was so exciting about the X2 ver.2's was that in a big room with all that power, they had a level of dynamic contrast that I've never experienced in recorded music.

As I like to say, a mega expensive product like the X2 should take you to a place that you have never been, and these speakers certainly did that in a way I've yet to experience, other than perhaps the million dollar MBL system I heard once.

So in that case, a 150k pair of X2's, a 30 thousand dollar pair of VTL monos, an ARC Ref preamp and ARC CD player is a super bargain compared to a million dollar MBL system!

It's all relative!

Interestingly enough, Wilson has sold over 400 pairs of the X-1/X-2 series and they have sold 22 THOUSAND pair of Watt/Puppies over the years!

Just like the ML folks standing behind their speakers, the commitment to excellence at Wilson is high.

Now I can't wait to go see and listen to the CLX!

 

[David Matz]

How would you compare the midranges of the Wilson compared to the MLs? I have heard WP8s and when dialed in they sound awesome. The sweetspot is narrow,then again its how it was dialed in. Beauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutiful Burgundy finish,it was inspired of a Porsche color. Nice. Many audiophiles trash Wilson without hearing them,but if you find a cool dealer who allows you to bring your own music and will LEAVE YOU ALONE,you will soon forget you are listening to speakers....................Of course you can say the same for MLs too.

I extensively auditioned the Watt Puppies 8's with my own music. The midrange is good, for a non-electrostatic speaker. I thought this was an achievement by itself. My Ascents blew the midrange of the Watt Puppies away. The Watt Puppies, however, had much better coherence, and very fast, solid bass.

 

[VanDaRo]

I too have auditioned the Watt/Puppy (model 7's) recently. Very nice and dynamic in the extreme. But at ~26K, they are a ripoff. They are not 20K better than a decent set of Logans. They are an esoteric (and beautifully constructed) product for the eccentric and wealthy. I have only ever seen the Alexandrias, never listened -- I simply don't see the point.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm glad that someone makes and buys speakers like these. But although I am fairly well-off, I will simply not consider Wilson Audio products a reasonable or intelligent purchase.

I would like to see a review of the new Thiel 3.7 (at 10K) and see how they compare. My thinking is that they will trounce just about anything at that price level and even those at 3 times the cost.

~VDR

 

[wallacefl]

check out SALK and SELAH...have heard some of each using SEAS w18/ribbon combos ...they are superior in the mids and highs to the Watt p....

 

[SundayNiagara]

I too have auditioned the Watt/Puppy (model 7's) recently. Very nice and dynamic in the extreme. But at ~26K, they are a ripoff. They are not 20K better than a decent set of Logans. They are an esoteric (and beautifully constructed) product for the eccentric and wealthy. I have only ever seen the Alexandrias, never listened -- I simply don't see the point.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm glad that someone makes and buys speakers like these. But although I am fairly well-off, I will simply not consider Wilson Audio products a reasonable or intelligent purchase.

I would like to see a review of the new Thiel 3.7 (at 10K) and see how they compare. My thinking is that they will trounce just about anything at that price level and even those at 3 times the cost.

~VDR

I would take a Thiel 3.7 review with a grain of salt, unless they are driven by high-quality/high current monster amps. If Thiel runs true-to-form on the 3.7s, the crossover will be very complex, making the speakers very difficult to drive. A few years ago, a pair of Thiels driven by Bryston amps were reviewed by one of the rags. It wasn't one of the most positive reviews I'd ever seen and I felt the amp/s were suspect. Bryston makes great amps, but for Thiels, Krell or comparable amps are needed. Also, I want to say that I'm not a Thiel fan, but felt the speakers were short-changed by the reviewer's choice of amps.

 

[tonepub]

I too have auditioned the Watt/Puppy (model 7's) recently. Very nice and dynamic in the extreme. But at ~26K, they are a ripoff. They are not 20K better than a decent set of Logans. They are an esoteric (and beautifully constructed) product for the eccentric and wealthy. I have only ever seen the Alexandrias, never listened -- I simply don't see the point.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm glad that someone makes and buys speakers like these. But although I am fairly well-off, I will simply not consider Wilson Audio products a reasonable or intelligent purchase.

I would like to see a review of the new Thiel 3.7 (at 10K) and see how they compare. My thinking is that they will trounce just about anything at that price level and even those at 3 times the cost.

~VDR

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion...

I'm not getting rid of my ML's either. It's all about your room, your system
and your requirements. Not everyone has the right room for a set of panels. I know if I wasn't lucky enough to have such a good room for my Summits, I would buy a pair of Sophia 2's in a heartbeat.

I'm not a fan of the Thiel stuff at all, but I haven't heard them with many different amplifiers, so who knows? I wasn't a big fan of Wilson till I heard them with decent equipment properly set up. And I've had plenty of people come over to my house, take one look at my Summits and tell me that "they hate the way panels sound" or "panels don't have dynamic range" blah blah, and I've sold about a dozen pairs of Summit/Vantage in the meantime.

It's all about the room and the setup.

Again, can't wait to hear the CLX..... Good chance that is going to be my next speaker!

 

[Joey_V]

I extensively auditioned the Watt Puppies 8's with my own music. The midrange is good, for a non-electrostatic speaker. I thought this was an achievement by itself. My Ascents blew the midrange of the Watt Puppies away. The Watt Puppies, however, had much better coherence, and very fast, solid bass.

I disagree... the WP7 or 8 have much more dynamics embedded in the midrange than the Ascents did from my audition experience. All IMHO. The WP7/8 and Sophias are stellar speakers - a little overpriced, but when compared straight on to most other speakers - they hold their own with ease, provided you have the right equipment behind them.

A lot of times, when evaluating speakers of this caliber, it is VERY difficult to say whether the sound you are evaluating is that of the speaker or of the upstreams behind such a transparent speaker.

Joey

 

[David Matz]

I disagree... the WP7 or 8 have much more dynamics embedded in the midrange than the Ascents did from my audition experience. All IMHO. The WP7/8 and Sophias are stellar speakers - a little overpriced, but when compared straight on to most other speakers - they hold their own with ease, provided you have the right equipment behind them.

A lot of times, when evaluating speakers of this caliber, it is VERY difficult to say whether the sound you are evaluating is that of the speaker or of the upstreams behind such a transparent speaker.

Joey

Joey,

We can agree to disagree about this one. I still stand by statement because the upstream equipment is almost identical!

The source is Ayre C5Xe, the preamp is Ayre K5Xe. The cables are all Transparent. The amps are different - my Ascents are driven by Bryston, while the WP8 is driven by Ayre monoblocks (very liquid midrange). However, I am willing to this unfair advantage to the Wilsons because they need all of the help they can get. Yes, the WP8's are pretty good, but they do not have the electrostatic midrange even with the Ayre monoblocks. I'll take the Ascent midrange driven by Bryston.

I think the reason why people bother with electrostatics in the first place is the midrange. No they don't have the coherence, the bass integration, the dispersion, room issues, etc., but they do have a killer midrange.

As I said, I do like the Wilson's. However, I am not sure they are worth the money. I'll take the Summit or the Maggie 20.1 (or a Quad) in a well treated room over the Wilsons.

If you are curious, come by my house. I will set up this system for you. We can then drive over to the dealer and you can get as close as an A/B comparison as possible without hauling the speakers to the same room.