Vistas, good-bye.

[aerius007]

I bought my Vistas last December and one of them was DOA. I have been using the store loaners ever since then and am very happy with the sound. Having a good relationship with my dealer, when my replacements came in they felt it was OK to sell them to a customer that came in looking for a pair. Considering I have their loaners and get good deals from this was no problem for me, as a matter of fact I was happy to help them make a deal.

They called today to give me info on the arrival of my Vistas and instead we worked out a deal on Vantages. I really wasnt interested in the Vantages for HT use but the Vistas are in a 2 channel system and the benefits of an upgrade seems to be a no brainer.

Now the main question is about my amplification. The VK-500 was bought with the intention of running the stat panel and the woofers. Now I need power for the stats only which means I might have to reconsider the 500. I wouldnt say that 400 SS watts is overkill, just maybe not the best option. I may sell that amp and look for a BAT tube amp, like a VK-60 or 75 to go with the system. Any thoughts?

 

[Beat_Dominator]

Headroom is a GOOD thing. Unless you are unhappy with the current amplifier, I would not see any real reason to change.

 

[Rich]

I would definitely listen to them with the VK-500 for a month or two before I decided whether or not to change amps. You may be more than happy with this combination. And if not, at least it will give you a frame of reference to compare any new amp to.

 

[Joey_V]

Damn... everyone's upgrading around here!

COngrats on Vantages!!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

 

[aliveatfive]

I bought my Vistas last December and one of them was DOA. I have been using the store loaners ever since then and am very happy with the sound. Having a good relationship with my dealer, when my replacements came in they felt it was OK to sell them to a customer that came in looking for a pair. Considering I have their loaners and get good deals from this was no problem for me, as a matter of fact I was happy to help them make a deal.

They called today to give me info on the arrival of my Vistas and instead we worked out a deal on Vantages. I really wasnt interested in the Vantages for HT use but the Vistas are in a 2 channel system and the benefits of an upgrade seems to be a no brainer.

Now the main question is about my amplification. The VK-500 was bought with the intention of running the stat panel and the woofers. Now I need power for the stats only which means I might have to reconsider the 500. I wouldnt say that 400 SS watts is overkill, just maybe not the best option. I may sell that amp and look for a BAT tube amp, like a VK-60 or 75 to go with the system. Any thoughts?

I've heard the VK 75 (it's one of the amps I considered) and I think it would sound great in your system. Try to audition one at home, if possible.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Damn... everyone's upgrading around here!

COngrats on Vantages!!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

See the influence you have?!

 

[stesom]

Never too much power as long as its quality

I have Summits and even though they have powered woofers I would not consider them to need less amp. I am currently running a Classe CA-400 into them which does 400 into 8 ohms, 800 into four and I expect double that into 2.

These speakers take whatever you give them and are happy with big power. Now on the other hand, I am bringing home a set of ATMA-SPHERE MA-1 MK2s at 150watts per side and hope that is enough. I don't know what happend, but all of a sudden I have gone tooby. ARC PH7 and ARC LS26 (Maybe Ref-3) already in place. I can out Joey anyday on upgraditis even though he bought my Rotel 1090 and sold it in a couple of months for the Plinius (good move Joey I am impressed, just wait until you make big doctor bucks )

Bottom line is that as long as its high quality power, I personally do not think you can have too much .......Steve

 

[twich54]

Damn... everyone's upgrading around here!

COngrats on Vantages!!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Now go ask Anthony (asindc) what he just acquired !! ???

 

[Joey_V]

Now go ask Anthony (asindc) what he just acquired !! ???

Ahhh geez.....

 

[aliveatfive]

I have Summits and even though they have powered woofers I would not consider them to need less amp. I am currently running a Classe CA-400 into them which does 400 into 8 ohms, 800 into four and I expect double that into 2.

These speakers take whatever you give them and are happy with big power. Now on the other hand, I am bringing home a set of ATMA-SPHERE MA-1 MK2s at 150watts per side and hope that is enough. I don't know what happend, but all of a sudden I have gone tooby. ARC PH7 and ARC LS26 (Maybe Ref-3) already in place. I can out Joey anyday on upgraditis even though he bought my Rotel 1090 and sold it in a couple of months for the Plinius (good move Joey I am impressed, just wait until you make big doctor bucks )

Bottom line is that as long as its high quality power, I personally do not think you can have too much .......Steve

Have you ever heard Summits with lower-powered tube amps? Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. Tube watts always sound more powerful than solid-state watts. I've never approached the limits of loudness with my 110 watts of tubes.

 

[Joey_V]

Have you ever heard Summits with lower-powered tube amps? Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. Tube watts always sound more powerful than solid-state watts. I've never approached the limits of loudness with my 110 watts of tubes.

Knowing Steve, he's got this under control. Last time I was at his place, he was all solid state, now he's moving to tubes.

Come to us... come to us, Steve!!

 

[Rich]

Have you ever heard Summits with lower-powered tube amps? Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. Tube watts always sound more powerful than solid-state watts. I've never approached the limits of loudness with my 110 watts of tubes.

AliveatFive, surely you are not suggesting that 110 wpc is a "lower-powered" tube amp? I'm thinking 1 to 30 wpc is a lower-powered tube amp. Anything over 100 is pretty powerful for a tube amp. Of course, I know that this is the point you are trying to make. Tube watts pack more punch than solid-state watts.

As for my experience, I currently have my Summits hooked up to 140 wpc tube amp (CJ premier 140) and it is plenty of power for those bad boys. I think there are a few on this forum who are powering them with 50 wpc or less of tube power and are quite satisfied. At the same time, I am definitely in the camp that believes headroom is good in an amp, particularly in a solid-state design. Then again, those Plinius amps some of the guys are using only put out low wattage when biased to class A, but the guys owning them seem to love it. Just goes to show, you got to experiment to find what is right for you.

 

[Joey_V]

Then again, those Plinius amps some of the guys are using only put out low wattage when biased to class A, but the guys owning them seem to love it. Just goes to show, you got to experiment to find what is right for you.

I thought it was full Class A....

 

[Peter Hogan]

AliveatFive, surely you are not suggesting that 110 wpc is a "lower-powered" tube amp? I'm thinking 1 to 30 wpc is a lower-powered tube amp. Anything over 100 is pretty powerful for a tube amp. Of course, I know that this is the point you are trying to make. Tube watts pack more punch than solid-state watts.

Tube watts are exactly the same as SS watts. The biggest difference is that with tubes you can run a higher average volume. With SS, when the amp runs out of voltage, you get a hard clipping, which generates distortion as odd harmonics and are very easily heard as harsh sounding. A tube amp will generate distortion too, but it's a more rounded off clip, and is mostly even harmonics, which sound more like overtones, and not harsh like SS distortion does.

You can run tubes louder than SS, and even though you are starting to get distortion on the peaks, it is much less noticeable than with SS, where you can hear ANY clipping distortion very easily. Tubes can be overdriven with less detriment to the sound than SS, that's why they sound 'louder' than an equally powered SS amp.

Peter

 

[Pcar928fan]

Tube watts are exactly the same as SS watts. The biggest difference is that with tubes you can run a higher average volume.

Maybe it is in the way they deliver the current or something... If you had a SS amp that was rated at 35 wpc you would hardly get a decent volume if you even could out of an ML speaker... A tube amp at 35 wpc would probably put a nice smile on your face though!

I am no EE but I can know you can't compare the sound (spl) of a 100 wpc tube amp to that of a 100 wpc SS amp. Seems to me that is why you see the highest powered tube amps below 200 wpc (well, below actually) and the highest powered SS amps well above 350 wpc (sometimes WAY ABOVE)...

YMMV!

 

[Rich]

I thought it was full Class A....

My understanding is that the normal bias for the Plinius SA 102 is Class A/AB, and that with a flick of a switch you can switch it to full Class A bias. I thought that I read somewhere that this reduced the wpc output to something like 30 wpc, but I certainly could be mistaken in that regard. I probably should be a little more careful about making offhand remarks regarding things I really don't know about first-hand. Sorry if I was mistaken in that comment.

 

[Rich]

Tube watts are exactly the same as SS watts.

Technically, I think you are correct. Watts is watts. But from an actual real-life product usage standpoint, I think you will agree that there is a big difference between tube amps and solid-state amps of the same wattage measurement. Perhaps for the reasons you stated. Perhaps for some other reasons, as well. Not being an electrical engineer, I really don't know.

 

[aliveatfive]

AliveatFive, surely you are not suggesting that 110 wpc is a "lower-powered" tube amp? I'm thinking 1 to 30 wpc is a lower-powered tube amp. Anything over 100 is pretty powerful for a tube amp. Of course, I know that this is the point you are trying to make. Tube watts pack more punch than solid-state watts.

As for my experience, I currently have my Summits hooked up to 140 wpc tube amp (CJ premier 140) and it is plenty of power for those bad boys. I think there are a few on this forum who are powering them with 50 wpc or less of tube power and are quite satisfied. At the same time, I am definitely in the camp that believes headroom is good in an amp, particularly in a solid-state design. Then again, those Plinius amps some of the guys are using only put out low wattage when biased to class A, but the guys owning them seem to love it. Just goes to show, you got to experiment to find what is right for you.

My only point is that a BAT VK 75 would certainly power Summits to a considerably loud listening level. Those who have not experienced tube amps do not know about the difference in clipping characteristics between tubes and solid state. Summits do not require above 75 watts to make them sing. That is my point!

 

[HsvToolFool]

Seems to me that is why you see the highest powered tube amps below 200 wpc (well, below actually) and the highest powered SS amps well above 350 wpc (sometimes WAY ABOVE)...
YMMV!

Set the WayBack Machine to 1980, Sherman....

I agree with statements regarding tube vs ss power, I just
wanted to remind that the mega-scary-watt SS monsters
are a relatively recent trend. Krell's KSA-100 and Levinson
ML-2 were scandalous class-A power-levels back in the day.
Nobody doubled power output as impedance halved. Now
it's common. Go figure.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Set the WayBack Machine to 1980, Sherman....

I agree with statements regarding tube vs ss power, I just
wanted to remind that the mega-scary-watt SS monsters
are a relatively recent trend.

I did not know that... I have not been into this very long but I guess I came in as the power war was just starting to escalate big time.