Vista vs. Vantage, first impressions...

[aerius007]

I setup the Vantages yesterday and took out the Vistas. Up to this point the Vantages have about 6 hrs of play time. Let me tell you the change is not as subtle as I thought it would be. I know they have the same panel but there are some reasons I think these sound better.

First of all right out of the box there was a ton more bass. Being new speakers I wont say it was refined but then again I really didnt sit and listen to them much. I put them on and did things around the house I needed to catch up on. I originally thought that I had plenty of power to get the bass I needed from a 2 channel setup (remember my first speakers were the somewhat bass-shy Aerius i and thats what I have been brought up with so to speak). While I listened to the Vistas I was happy with the bass but not overly impressed. The Vantages are completely different in this aspect. The drivers are different and the 200w amp used in them seems to do a great job of keeping them moving. The only problem is now I need to find all the little things that vibrate in my living room, a problem that I did not have with the Vistas but am happy to take on.

Now what about the stat panels? I do hear an improvement in the soundstage and depth. Things seem less stressed and more natural. I think there is a really good reason for this. Before my amp was pushing two stat panels and two woofers. Now it only has the job of running stats which has to take a great load off of its duties. The more I think about it I imagine running two different types of drivers would make it tough. Not that the amp wasnt up to the task, but think about it. Wouldnt it be easier to please one woman than two at the same time (not that I wouldnt give it a try )? One likes this and the other likes something a little different, that could be hard to keep up with. Its still seeing a 4 ohm load and producing 400w a channel but all of that is dedicated to the stats.

After they break in some more I will give a couple more opinions, but for now I think I will just sit and listen.

 

[Joey_V]

Wouldnt it be easier to please one woman than two at the same time (not that I wouldnt give it a try )?

You're CRAZY!!

 

[Pcar928fan]

but think about it. Wouldnt it be easier to please one woman than two at the same time (not that I wouldnt give it a try )? One likes this and the other likes something a little different, that could be hard to keep up with.

Very good analogy! All you need is a wife and a girlfriend to test that theory. Please report back. I guess you could make a slightly different report, but the same theory if you had/have a wife and a daughter, or a daughter and a girl friend.

 

[Peter Hogan]

Very good analogy! All you need is a wife and a girlfriend to test that theory.

That invariably gets a fourth person involved, i.e. a lawyer...

Peter

 

[theWB]

Wouldnt it be easier to please one woman than two at the same time (not that I wouldnt give it a try )? One likes this and the other likes something a little different, that could be hard to keep up with.

Back in the 70's it was much easier to stumble into a Ménage à trois.
Now a days much easier to keep up thanks to the magic of Viagra.
Big question is when your done which one cooks breakfast and which one makes the bed.

 

[aerius007]

This is funny, we have completely forgotten what the thread was about. I love listening to music but I guess I should have known there is one thing that can take that off of our minds. In the future I will say something like trying to drive two cars at once, or keeping both of your kids happy at the same time.

Now back to the two girls at the same time... Just kidding.

I really like the change I have heard on the speakers. They now have about 15hrs on them and I can hear the bass is not so "flat airy sounding" and they just overall sound better. I really do think the amp is showing off now that it is only running the stats. There is more control, better defined imaging and the vocals are more "in their place" then they were before. I really think that for the money its a great upgrade, much better than if I would have put that money into a cd player or better pre.

 

[DTB300]

First of all right out of the box there was a ton more bass. Being new speakers I wont say it was refined but then again I really didnt sit and listen to them much. I put them on and did things around the house I needed to catch up on. I originally thought that I had plenty of power to get the bass I needed from a 2 channel setup (remember my first speakers were the somewhat bass-shy Aerius i and thats what I have been brought up with so to speak). While I listened to the Vistas I was happy with the bass but not overly impressed. The Vantages are completely different in this aspect.

I completely agree with you on your evaluation of the Vista vs the Vantage. While I really liked the Vantage and Summits when I heard them, I was not impressed one bit by the Vista. Glad to hear you are loving your new toys!!

Dan

 

[user 1398]

Wouldnt it be easier to please one woman than two at the same time (not that I wouldnt give it a try )?.

I've tried it and I agree it would be easier, but it's also twice as fun:rocker:

 

[IWalker]

I've tried it and I agree it would be easier, but it's also twice as fun:rocker:

Braggart

 

[Joey_V]

I completely agree with you on your evaluation of the Vista vs the Vantage. While I really liked the Vantage and Summits when I heard them, I was not impressed one bit by the Vista.
Dan

I still wonder why this is so.... they both use similar panels (if not identical).... the only difference is the xo and the woofer...

I'm going to go and listen again next time... critically.

Joey

PS
Before I get distracted... congrats Aerius! Now you REALLY have to change your moniker!

 

[aerius007]

I still wonder why this is so.... they both use similar panels (if not identical).... the only difference is the xo and the woofer...

I think its mainly due to the amplification factor. Think about like this. If you have a car with 300hp and it weighs 4500lbs it wont be nearly as fast and agile as a car that weighs 2300lbs with the same horsepower. To the amp, running only the stats is the same as the 300hp pushing 2300lbs. If you add a couple of power robbing woofers now that 300hp car weighs 4500lbs, much harder to drive. It wont be as fast, wont handle the same and will be much less responsive.

 

[Pcar928fan]

That invariably gets a fourth person involved, i.e. a lawyer...

Peter

LOL! You may be right!

 

[timm]

I still wonder why this is so.... they both use similar panels (if not identical).... the only difference is the xo and the woofer...

I'm going to go and listen again next time... critically.

Joey

PS
Before I get distracted... congrats Aerius! Now you REALLY have to change your moniker!

After listening to summits/ and listening to Odyssey-Descent combo.... I think the additional bass gives the illusion that the panels sound different. With the powered woofers in the summits and the odyssey-descent combo - there is a more solid sound - more 3 D sound in my opinion of course. I think it impacts the way the mids/highs sound - as well as the lows of course. The concept of a 'seemless' woofer/stat is what makes it so... We have a tendency to split the sound of the panels - from the sound of the bass - when in actuality we are listening to BOTH - and the interaction of the two is what makes the speaker sound so great. In other words - additional bass response in the room impacts the sound of the panel - just like a room treatment would.....My long boring opinion of course!!

 

[Rich]

I think its mainly due to the amplification factor.

I think there is some truth to this theory. I know that when I went from powering my Ascents with just my CJ 140 tube amp to bi-amping them with the tube amp on the panels and solid state monoblocs pushing the woofers, I really improved the sound of the mids and highs. Yes, I had much improved bass, which is what I was going for. But the sound coming from the panels really improved a lot too, which was unexpected. I think freeing the amp from woofer duty, and allowing it to just deal with the panels allows it to do a better job, resulting in improved overall sound. The built-in amps for the Summit and Vantage allow you to take advantage of this aspect of hybrid speakers without having to bi-amp.

As for the sound of the bass, though, it still matters what quality of sound signal you are sending them. As mentioned in another thread, I recently auditioned a Sunfire amp and an Anthem amp back-to-back on a pair of Vantages. All other equipment stayed the same. The difference in sound between the two was like night and day, with the biggest difference being the bass. With the Sunfire, the bass was tight, quick, and punchy, just like it should be. With the Anthem, the bass was just plain wooly. It was really bad.

The lesson there is that even though the Summits and Vantages have their own amps for the woofers, they are still sensitive to the quality of the signal that comes from the amp you are driving the panels with. So even if you think you have an amp that is perfect for the panels, understand that if your bass doesn't sound good, it could be that the amp doesn't output a quality bass signal to the Logans. So this begs the question: If you find an amp that you love for the panels, but it gives you poor bass, do you consider bi-amping the Summits or Vantages with an amp that gives a better bass signal to the woofer amp? Seems silly, but I can see circumstances where it might be necessary.

 

[edwinr]

You're right, Rich. The Summit's inbuilt amplifiers are only as good as the signal fed into them...

 

[DTB300]

I still wonder why this is so.... they both use similar panels (if not identical).... the only difference is the xo and the woofer...

Joey...This is just my opinion on the two models and does not equate to the "final truth" one bit. I am sure there are others who would disagree with me.

Like you stated, go back and listen again, then let us know your opinion.

Dan

 

[IWalker]

It would be interesting to do a comparision between bi-amped vistas to a vantage.

Also, our impressions of high frequencies are affected by low frequencies as well. A better low end makes the high end sound better...so the panels could possibily be performing exactly the same, but would sound different to our ears, because of the change in the bass.

I never truly experienced this until I added my sub, and everything just started sounding cleaner from the panels.

 

[aerius007]

It would be interesting to do a comparision between bi-amped vistas to a vantage.

I thought this same thing earlier. Lets say I had two VK-500's and was bi-amping the Vistas. I think the panels would sound just as good as my Vantages do now. They are the same panels. I am not hearing a better panel in the Vantage, just a better controlled one due only (in my opinion) to the bi-amping. They do have different woofers and enclosures so the Vantage would probably sound better, even with a stronger amp on the Vistas woofer. There is also a slightly different x-over but nothing that would change the panel that much. With the Vantage the x-over point is 400 vs. 450 in the Vista (I think thats how it went).

But the money is better spent with the Vantage vs. bi-amped Vistas, Vantages cost around $1300 more and you have the bass adjustment. Another VK-500 would be around $2200-$2500 (used agon) and you still wouldnt have the high-excursion woofers. Now you could get a cheaper amp, say for me a VK-200 for around $1000 but I still think it wouldnt sound as good as the Vantage (due to the woofer and enclosure) and wouldnt be as flexible. And those amp prices are used, if new double the cost of bi-amping. As we all know the Martin Logan does not buy used amps to power their Vantages so apples to apples is new vs. new.

 

[timm]

As mentioned in another thread, I recently auditioned a Sunfire amp and an Anthem amp back-to-back on a pair of Vantages. All other equipment stayed the same. The difference in sound between the two was like night and day, with the biggest difference being the bass. With the Sunfire, the bass was tight, quick, and punchy, just like it should be. With the Anthem, the bass was just plain wooly. It was really bad.
QUOTE]

I did the same with a Rotel and a Sunfire... same impression.... I never thought an amp could give ma a night and day impression - these two did...
the sunfire was better ....by far.

 

[Pcar928fan]

I did the same with a Rotel and a Sunfire... same impression.... I never thought an amp could give ma a night and day impression - these two did...
the sunfire was better ....by far.

Which Rotel were you comparing?