Question for Kevin. How does she move more to the center with Bernie trying to have more influence on the platform??? I think that is a sticky wicket they need to figure out. And the email scandal investigation? If a republican is running that the 'big surprise' will come out in October is my guess!! Politics as usual.
The DON
- Thread starter Gordon Gray
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Sounds like you haven't learned anything. You read what you want, misinterpret it, and disregard the rest, best I can tell. I agree with Mark. In our system, if a candidate gets up and tells the absolute truth as they see it, and is completely straight forward and honest on their positions and what they intend to do once elected, that candidate has no possibility of getting elected. Ever. That's why candidates equivocate, hedge, and "evolve" their positions. That's why they play to the base in the primary and move to the center in the general. And then maybe pivot again once elected. That's why they do things in their second term they would never do in their first. Right or wrong and morals have nothing to do with it. It is just a simple fact of life if you want to run for President.
Do you think Trump really plans to build that wall? To deport Muslims? Or any of the other stupid crap he spouted in the primary? Watch over the next few months as he changes his position on every one of those issues. Because he has to if he wants to have any hope in the general election.
From an article I read today:
"In his latest surprising breach of orthodoxy on Friday Trump questioned whether the U.S. government would make good on its commitment to fully honor Treasury notes, suggesting he might try to get a better deal."
This sort of talk may not scare some of you guys, but it scares the crap out of me. Because it shows just how clueless (and dangerous to our country) he really is.
"In his latest surprising breach of orthodoxy on Friday Trump questioned whether the U.S. government would make good on its commitment to fully honor Treasury notes, suggesting he might try to get a better deal."
This sort of talk may not scare some of you guys, but it scares the crap out of me. Because it shows just how clueless (and dangerous to our country) he really is.
Kevin
Well-known member
I asked, "Why is getting votes more important than perhaps doing the right thing? The answer I received back was, "Getting the votes only matters if you want to be elected." What the heck am I not reading?? I didn't say telling the absolute truth, but the "right thing". Hedging for votes is one thing, basically buying votes to become elected is quite different. Really, you would rather have your party knowingly not do "the right thing", as long as your party gets elected? Should a politician promise a car for every family making less than $60,000 a year, knowing that would get him elected? To heck with the deficit, to heck with the poor family working hard to make $62,000 a year who end up worse off than the family making $58,000 a year. To heck with any sense of values. We won and that is all that counts.
We have a large immigration problem, and never mind Trump, I was seeing and hearing it in the media long before he came along, the constant stance that republicans will never win an election if they keep harping for tighter border security. So sure, if you give them access to all the so called "free stuff" they are entitled to when they jump the border, repeatedly call for making them legal without solving the border issue first, then you will get the vast majority of the Latino vote. But it doesn't do the US any good, nor does it do any good for the Latinos who are already here that are hard working and law abiding citizens, and perhaps came here in the lawful manner. We are close to being $20 trillion in debt. How does allowing a soft stance on illegal immigration, even to the point of having some liberal districts provide sanctuary cities, that in some cases provide protection to criminals, do any of us any good as a Nation? I don't think it does, but it does well for the democratic party.
As far as Bernie's statement on why people, he used "us", find the rape of young girls appealing. Since you told me your opinion on why I write the things I write, as best as you could tell, let me tell you why I think you wrote what you did. I think are so into defending the democrat, against my comment, that you were willing to defend a passage reading, "Do you know why the newspapers with the articles like 'Girl 12 raped by 14 men' sell so well? To what in us are they appealing?" There is no defending that. It doesn't matter if he wrote 20 pages of continuing thoughts. The author of the statement won't defend it. His own campaign manager won't defend it. But you did your best to defend it, and it doing so you spun quite the web. At first you said "us" only meant some, and then you later said "us" means humanity in general. I don't think you believe that, but it's what you wrote in defense of what I think most reasonable people would say was completely indefensible........ and scary.
We have a large immigration problem, and never mind Trump, I was seeing and hearing it in the media long before he came along, the constant stance that republicans will never win an election if they keep harping for tighter border security. So sure, if you give them access to all the so called "free stuff" they are entitled to when they jump the border, repeatedly call for making them legal without solving the border issue first, then you will get the vast majority of the Latino vote. But it doesn't do the US any good, nor does it do any good for the Latinos who are already here that are hard working and law abiding citizens, and perhaps came here in the lawful manner. We are close to being $20 trillion in debt. How does allowing a soft stance on illegal immigration, even to the point of having some liberal districts provide sanctuary cities, that in some cases provide protection to criminals, do any of us any good as a Nation? I don't think it does, but it does well for the democratic party.
As far as Bernie's statement on why people, he used "us", find the rape of young girls appealing. Since you told me your opinion on why I write the things I write, as best as you could tell, let me tell you why I think you wrote what you did. I think are so into defending the democrat, against my comment, that you were willing to defend a passage reading, "Do you know why the newspapers with the articles like 'Girl 12 raped by 14 men' sell so well? To what in us are they appealing?" There is no defending that. It doesn't matter if he wrote 20 pages of continuing thoughts. The author of the statement won't defend it. His own campaign manager won't defend it. But you did your best to defend it, and it doing so you spun quite the web. At first you said "us" only meant some, and then you later said "us" means humanity in general. I don't think you believe that, but it's what you wrote in defense of what I think most reasonable people would say was completely indefensible........ and scary.
Kevin
Well-known member
Yeah, I said before that is the only reason why he is still in the game, to keep her to the left until the convention. She will migrate towards the middle the best she can, but you are correct, she has committed herself to running further towards the left than she ever wanted.
I don't know about the email investigation. I think Comey is a stand up guy, he even went after the Bush administration for wire tapping. I think he'll do an honest investigation, at least I hope, and he'll announce their findings when it's done. Should there be something there 'there', but the DOJ doesn't bother to bring charges, I think there will still be a large fallout over it. You'll have stuff getting leaked and perhaps people quitting in protest. We'll see.
Colin Powell did the EXACT SAME THING and nobody cared and nobody cares now.
This has been blown out of proportion beyond belief as the last act of defiance by spin doctors. Nothing is going to stick on this issue ever.
First it was Benghazi, and they tried and tried and tried to get some traction on that. Nothing. Now it's an email server. This isn't going anywhere either. It is just the last ditch effort by some, but it is a waste of time.
Basically it's like I sent you an email and years later someone classifies that email and says it should have been stored differently. There is nothing there to prosecute. If there were something to prosecute it would mean that the people with the authority in government could go back and classify anything and then prosecute someone because of it. That would be a precedent that would allow anyone to be locked up over nothing.
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Kevin, so you are going to trash a person as "scary" because of one sentence that they could have worded better in a piece of fiction they wrote over forty years ago? Despite them having done nothing scary as a legislator for dozens and dozens of years since? I think you are grasping at straws because you have nothing else. I also think any average person reading that piece of fiction without any political backdrop wouldn't find anything scary about it. They would recognize what the author was trying to convey without feeling the need to read evil intent into every turn of phrase. The only thing truly scary about Sanders to most conservatives are his socialist ideals.
Kevin
Well-known member
Mark, it wasn't the "exact same thing", and I have even read a lot of opinions from democrats saying it wasn't nearly the same thing. Colin Powell did not set up a computer server in the basement of his home to run all of his government related emails through. Nor did he have a family foundation that took in donations from countries that also were getting approvals issued from the State Department. This to me is the more outrageous part of what she did. She may not have shown any favor by accepting donations, but those countries did all seem to get their approvals that were needed. She should have known this was at least giving the very appearance of something shady, and I think I remember she told Obama she would not have the foundation take in any money while she was Sec. of State. I could be wrong. The fact that she didn't even care that it might look shady, indicates to me she just doesn't give a dam about what other people think, she's above them. And that is troubling.
Honestly, you may think she is much better than Trump, and I respect that. But you can't say that how she handled the emails and the foundation was not beyond stupid. She has admitted as much.
I don't whether there is anything that will come out of the investigation. But I don't think the FBI spends this many months on something that has absolutely no merit. And just because she isn't charged, doesn't mean she didn't break the law, it just means they might not have "found" anything. OJ wasn't charged either.
Kevin
Well-known member
My gosh Rich, the left went after Romney for cutting some boys hair when he was like 19 years old or something. I saw people discussing it on TV, I saw it in print.
Let me just say this. I have done some stupid things in my life, I have said stupid things, I have written stupid things. Not even in my teenage years would I have ever written the words, "12 year old girl raped 14 men appealing" without thinking very carefully about what I was doing. Hell, I'm worried now that typing it this many times on a computer has gotten the attention of someone out there! To use that line, in an argumentative piece as it were, an Essay as the snope piece you had me read defines it as being, demonstrates to me a lack of judgment that is beyond comprehension. When he wrote the line, I don't take it like he was writing a fictional movie script, he wonders why people find it appealing. When I use scary, I mean 'how could he have put that in print for people to read', 'how could it even enter his mind to write', not that I think Bernie is seriously into the thought of raping young girls. Gosh I hope not.
I also wrote that he not that long ago said he would find a 90% tax acceptable. Of course, he's not running on that. Is he hedging?? But to find that acceptable at these times is also dangerous and scary to me.
I hope you know all is good, I like discussing with people in which I have differences more so than who think the same, it is much more interesting to me. Besides, one of these days when I can afford to upgrade my system, I am going to be asking for the opinions from you guys, so don't hold this stuff against me!
Hmmm.... Mark.... remember that stat above I mentioned about changing 3 out of 100 people? Small number right? Remember you mentioning 'getting the votes'..... this is how this ties together..... and the problem with Ms. Clinton is not 1 incident... it is multiple.... and unfortunately, because she is basically attached to her husband -- she gets his baggage as well because if we want to believe she was an integral part of that presidency which might show some 'depth' for her.... that comes along for the ride too....
Bengazzi -- Did you see the mother of the son that was killed there on CNN? 'They lied to me... etc...etc...'.... a crying mother that has no reason to lie.... The so called 'asked for more security '...something like 600 times and refused?? That is at her doorstep.... So, lets say 'not guilty'..... have we lost any votes yet? Email: Secretary of State - a personal server in her house with possible security info??? ok... lets say not guilty? lose any votes yet? She left the Secretary of State office... the reasons listed - medical....but now she is healthy for the presidency!! Kind of seems like a 'get outta dodge' approach to save face.... lose any votes yet? Whitewater.... Oh....that will probably come up.... Not Guilty AGAIN!! lose any votes yet? Bill's impeachment hearings..... sorry she gets that baggage (along with the good things .... but people remember all of the bad unfortunately)... Lose votes? NAFTA - I'm tellin ya... a lot of people in Michigan and the midwest love NAFTA.... a lot of people tell me that.... really really a lot of people...... She stays WITH HIM - after he humiliates her publicly - yet they always seem to be fairly distant from one another.... seems sort of artificial to me.....seems like she doesn't have a lot of respect for herself - what kind of 'woman card' is that?? - or just decided it might hurt her career to leave him.... This also gets tied to famous quotes like 'I didn't inhale'.... 'It depends what your definition of 'is' is?'..... Bernie Sanders: Her Super PAC ... Goldman Sachs... her ties with the Big Evil Banks.... All of it .... NOT GUILTY!!!! But come on!! Politics isn't about truth - its about perception...... and the perception is.... She got a lot 'goin on'.... Just sayin.... I'm sure The anti-Trump crowd can come up with a bunch as well - but, this is stuff that all happened while serving the public and on the public payroll...and got lots of coverage.... To say none of this 'sticks' is nonsense... The perception sticks....and it isn't because of the 'evil republicans'... it is because of her - and her history and shaky deals (or should I say 'crooked'??)..... I mean - I just sat down and typed this out off the top of my head.... Imagine if opponents plan for it?
Saying all of that... Sanders was just on CNN and did not completely dismiss a VP nod.... She'd be crazy not to offer it up....
OMG Timm, I just finished with mama's world famous meat loaf dinner (baked potatoes and acorn squash), relaxing, listening to tunes, sipping on some might fine 12 year 'Red Breast' and you damn near made me up-chuck !!
I just finished off a little 12 year McCallon this evening. I think I'll pick up some 15 year next
Went down smooth.Sorry, it's a shame to waste scotch or whiskey.
I just finished off a little 12 year McCallon this evening. I think I'll pick up some 15 year next
Sorry, it's a shame to waste scotch or whiskey.
very nice Mark, I suspect we'll both need more of the 'good stuff' to get through the next six months !!
Damn!! I'm not drinkin'!! That has gotta change now!!!
Lol - dave. I say that not because of my belief in The Bern but because of his following and if she wants to win - she needs them on her side. So don't get confused. Simply strategic for votes!! Haha.
Listening to Eric Bibb analogue Bibb 2xDSD. Silky smooth gotta find something drinkable that is silky smooth.
Lol - dave. I say that not because of my belief in The Bern but because of his following and if she wants to win - she needs them on her side. So don't get confused. Simply strategic for votes!! Haha.
Listening to Eric Bibb analogue Bibb 2xDSD. Silky smooth gotta find something drinkable that is silky smooth.
Despite all the he said / she said about our perceived villains and saviors in this race, let's all just take a moment to recognize the significance of events that has thus transpired. In this election, we have an outsider, a former democrat no less, who has never held office, brush away over a dozen solid challengers to take the republican nomination. On the other side, an old man who has never had much of a following has somehow started a progressive movement among millennials and inspired a new generation of voters to get involved, almost taking out the presumptive establishment favorite in the process. An election year like this may come around once or twice in a lifetime. From a historical perspective, it's pretty momentous. Kind of fun to watch it play out in real time. Get your popcorn ready. It's going to be a very interesting six months.
Exactly Rich.
I watched pundits on CNN switch gears as the primaries continued. It reminded me of watching big games where the announcers favor one team until it becomes blatantly obvious that the team they favor is going to lose. Then they start talking about the other team as if they were on that side all along!!
It should be interesting. If Hillary goes negative - I think it's a huge mistake on her campaigns part. But let's kick back and let them do the work for once!!
I watched pundits on CNN switch gears as the primaries continued. It reminded me of watching big games where the announcers favor one team until it becomes blatantly obvious that the team they favor is going to lose. Then they start talking about the other team as if they were on that side all along!!
It should be interesting. If Hillary goes negative - I think it's a huge mistake on her campaigns part. But let's kick back and let them do the work for once!!
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
So you have conclusive proof that Hillary changed headings / titles on her e-mail to obfuscate and confuse the actual content contained therein?
I'd love to see it.
I'd love to see it.
sb6
Well-known member
Do you want to take that chance and find out?
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of Trump. I'm just saying he doesn't mean to do any of the things he spouted in the primary. Nor will he do anything he says he will do heading into the general. It's all targeted rhetoric to get him elected. No, the thing that scares me about Trump are the things he is planning to do that he is not talking about. And the things that he will do on impulse that he doesn't even think about beforehand. He has just about all of the worst qualities you could hope for in a leader: narcissism, massive ego, stubbornness, impulsiveness, quick temper, prone to attack first and ask questions later, complete lack of understanding of policy choices and effects, complete inability to compromise, and the list goes on and on.
I just watched an interesting TED talk by reporter who has been in the field reporting on wars for many years.
Some interesting statistics.
After 911, suicides, violent crime, and people seeking mental health all dropped because out country came together in something equivalent to a group hug.
Whereas now with our country divided and each side accusing the other side of treason, we have a very unfriendly and unsupportive environment in the US and it is hurting the people of our country emotionally.
https://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_junger_our_lonely_society_makes_it_hard_to_come_home_from_war
I'm just trying to put some of this into perspective. Neither side is the enemy. We are all Americans and the more we fight each other the more we lose what once made this country great.
If I were a doctor I would say the US has an auto-immune disorder and is spending all of its energy fighting itself and hurting itself.
Some interesting statistics.
After 911, suicides, violent crime, and people seeking mental health all dropped because out country came together in something equivalent to a group hug.
Whereas now with our country divided and each side accusing the other side of treason, we have a very unfriendly and unsupportive environment in the US and it is hurting the people of our country emotionally.
https://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_junger_our_lonely_society_makes_it_hard_to_come_home_from_war
I'm just trying to put some of this into perspective. Neither side is the enemy. We are all Americans and the more we fight each other the more we lose what once made this country great.
If I were a doctor I would say the US has an auto-immune disorder and is spending all of its energy fighting itself and hurting itself.
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