the CLX review is here....

[Audiophiliac]

Very nice review Jeff. I also enjoyed reading your review of Metallica! I was this close to getting tickets to that very show....but I am holding out, hoping they will swing through Boise next fall/winter on a second north american leg.

 

[tonepub]

Thanks! They said that they do plan on making another sweep of the US after they get home from Europe, so if you love Metallica and they are in your town, I suggest checking them out. It was a great show!

 

[gregadd]

Limited discretionary income

One of the advantages of having limited discretionary income is that by the time I save up enough money for a particular purchase, it has been thoroughly vetted. I rarely make purchasing errors.

It appears the CLX may not be what I wanted. A full range electrostatic. By placing what is essentially two speakers in one box M/L tries to create the illusion of a full range electrostatic. The need for subs coupled with a price increase to $22.6K means taking on the CLX will be quite a project. I have not written it off. I am however keeping my CLS as a collectors item.

My problem is that from what I have read to date about the CLX it appears that total is indeed greater than the sum of it's parts. That is to say when the reviewer addressed the problems of the CLX design the conclusion is not supported by the analysis of the design. Final judgement will be reserved until I actually hear the speaker.

I guess that's why speaker design is mixture of art and science.:bowdown:

Greg

 

[tonepub]

: That is to say when the reviewer addressed the problems of the CLX design the conclusion is not supported by the analysis of the design.

What does this mean?

 

[User211]

I was going to ask the same thing, but got distracted...

 

[gregadd]

What did I mean?

The CLX requires a sub. So does the CLS.
The CLX has limited dispersion. So does the CLS.
The CLX is placement finicky. So is the CLS.
The CLX goes down to about 50HZ. So does the CLS.
The CLX has a wicked impedance curve. So does the CLS.
It just was apparent to me that the CLX not only failed to deal with a lot of the CLS problems, it created a few no ones.
Notwithstanding that fact, it is a supposedly a quantum leap forward leap forward over the CLS.

Since the original CLS, which I own, did create some "magic", it would not surprise me if the CLX does also.

I contacted Overture in Delaware and they expect to have an event for the CLX in late January or February 2009

 

[User211]

Looking at the response curve posted recently by an owner, I think 50Hz is ambitious! Things start dropping sharply around 65-70Hz!!!!

Enjoy the dem.

You know, I think the Apogee Perigee is really worth a listen. And since it can go low, you won't need subs as well. No way to demo for me... I missed it in London in 2006 when it was at a show. But if Analysis speakers are anything to go by, they are gonna be good... very good.

 

[C.A.P]

The CLX requires a sub. So does the CLS.
The CLX has limited dispersion. So does the CLS.
The CLX is placement finicky. So is the CLS.
The CLX goes down to about 50HZ. So does the CLS.
The CLX has a wicked impedance curve. So does the CLS.
It just was apparent to me that the CLX not only failed to deal with a lot of the CLS problems, it created a few no ones.
Notwithstanding that fact, it is a supposedly a quantum leap forward leap forward over the CLS.

Since the original CLS, which I own, did create some "magic", it would not surprise me if the CLX does also.

I contacted Overture in Delaware and they expect to have an event for the CLX in late January or February 2009

Greg Not to disagree with you but the CLX does NOT need a SUB. I have heard them with and with out. The bass you hear is tight as ever and room gain will help. I run my CLS sans NO sub and get 40 hz with room gain. I have a sub but find it to clouded and not fast enough. That being said I demoed a DepthI and it was good but still had the sub sound and was a bit, Well subby .......




These are great speakers and can do special things but I would not even consider them unless I had a BIG room.

 

[User211]

I think Chris is right. Despite my comment about the freq. response, they sound fine WITHOUT a sub. Madness, I know, but they do. You just won't get really deep bass with any significant output. And you WILL need a big room to experience them at their best.

I'd still try and dem the Perigee if at all possible if I was serious about spending that much....

 

[gregadd]

Keep in mind

I have not heard the CLX. My comments were based on the review that uses two Martin Logan subs.

I have substantial experience with the CLS. Without a sub it's a nice speaker. With sub it is a world beater. I used Moscode amps. My experience is you get more bass with Krell despite other trade offs.

I encourage all to withhold judgement until you hear the speaker.
Greg

 

[tonepub]

Though I have two Descents with my CLX's, as I mentioned in the review, that your room and musical choices (and associated gear to some extent) will determine whether you need subs or not.

In my room, I was getting bass down to about 45hz. However, when comparing the CLX to a major full range speaker like the Wilson, Avalon, JM Labs, etc, it needs the subs to be competitive. However the 28thousand dollar Magico monitors need a sub too.

The dispersion of the CLX is much wider than the CLS. This speaker has a very good sweet spot compared to all the other panels I've heard.

And the CLX solved the dynamics issue. This is a panel that will play really loud without strain if you need it to.

Personally, I'd still rather have em with subs than without.

 

[gregadd]

CLX Review

Bass:
"... I was getting pretty solid response playing 50hz tones, but definitely a solid drop off at 40hz[/I]..."p.104.
Dispersion:
"...but this magic is usually a concert performed for an audience of one. Move over on the couch and the magic is gone. The CLX produces a giant soundfield that is both tall and wide." p.108-109.

I think you can see that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. I hope.

I don't have anything else to say until hear the speaker.

Greg

 

[twich54]

Bass:
"... I was getting pretty solid response playing 50hz tones, but definitely a solid drop off at 40hz[/I]..."p.104.
Dispersion:
"...but this magic is usually a concert performed for an audience of one. Move over on the couch and the magic is gone. The CLX produces a giant soundfield that is both tall and wide." p.108-109.

I think you can see that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. I hope.

I don't have anything else to say until hear the speaker.

Greg

Greg, I too have not heard it yet, but what seems that as sub(s) bring out the best, I have no problem at all with that, for IMO, given todays sub technology and associated Eq'ing software, everything in the Logan line-up sounds better !!

Looking forward to meeting you @ Overture for their unveiling, hopefully we can put a Mini / regional "Get together" around it.

 

[Len44]

Great review Jeff... Your entire publication is a breath of fresh air as well!

Totally Agree!!!

However, Jeff, your glowing review has made eager to hear the CLX, as happy as I have been with my Summits. So, not so sure how happy I am with you...

Seriously, thanks for your terrific publication. It has quickly become my far and away favorite. Please keep charging! :rocker:

 

[gregadd]

"Seriously, thanks for your terrific publication. It has quickly become my far and away favorite. Please keep charging! "

Me too.

"Looking forward to meeting you @ Overture for their unveiling, hopefully we can put a Mini / regional "Get together" around it. "

Maybe we should wear name tags.

Greg

 

[tonepub]

Thanks guys, the CLX is great, but the Summit is still an awesome speaker.

 

[RichTeer]

Let me add my voice of thanks for a great review. I especially like the fact that you took the time to do what amounts to two reviews in one: CLX sans subs and CLX with subs. Bravo! :clap:

 

[taylode]

Though I have two Descents with my CLX's, as I mentioned in the review, that your room and musical choices (and associated gear to some extent) will determine whether you need subs or not.

In my room, I was getting bass down to about 45hz. However, when comparing the CLX to a major full range speaker like the Wilson, Avalon, JM Labs, etc, it needs the subs to be competitive. However the 28thousand dollar Magico monitors need a sub too.

The dispersion of the CLX is much wider than the CLS. This speaker has a very good sweet spot compared to all the other panels I've heard.

And the CLX solved the dynamics issue. This is a panel that will play really loud without strain if you need it to.

Personally, I'd still rather have em with subs than without.

I agree with Jeff, depending on your music you may not need a sub; however, if you listen to a wide range of music there will be be plenty of music unheard without a sub. I can't imagine listening to Dead Can Dance without a sub.

 

[tonepub]

I agree with Jeff, depending on your music you may not need a sub; however, if you listen to a wide range of music there will be be plenty of music unheard without a sub. I can't imagine listening to Dead Can Dance without a sub.

You hit the nail on the head there!

 

[JonFo]

I agree with Jeff, depending on your music you may not need a sub; however, if you listen to a wide range of music there will be be plenty of music unheard without a sub. I can't imagine listening to Dead Can Dance without a sub.

Agreed, listening to DCD without a sub is a crime

But the bigger point is, there is precious little music that does NOT benefit from a sub.

Since it's trivial for me to turn on and off my sub (via a button on the speaker processors), I have tested what a system that only goes to 60Hz (close to the same cutoff and roll-off of a CLX), and let me tell you, there is little content where it's not immediately obvious that something is missing.

Even solo acoustic guitar has tones that are 'fuller' with the sub than without.

Solo piano absolutely requires a sub, or your missing the lowest octave.

And in all cases, a good recording captures some room 'ambiance' that is in the infrasonic range, a really good sub ads this back to your room and you get that sense of space.

Then there are some crappy recordings that have the rumble of trucks going by, the 'thunk' of a mic boom being bumped, etc. all nicely reproduced by the sub

Of course, there are subs, and there are good subs. A good sub, like a big IB, will move plenty of air (>10 liters of displacement for a moderate room), have vanishingly low distortion and be able to hit SPL's of 102 or way above (preferably flat to 20hz with less than 1% THD at 105dB SPL).

No open panel speaker will ever do that, so by definition, a good full-range speaker system based on a panel will require a sub.
The question is: how well integrated is that sub?

I give ML credit for engineering a custom crossover and EQ for their sub to match the CLX and provide a total system solution as Jeff has reviewed.