Spire vs Summit Advice!

[Hogweed75]

I'm a newer ML owner. A few months ago I purchased a Motiff center and a pair of Fresco i's for my rear channels in a 5.1 system. I really love these speakers and have always love the sound form electrostatics. Many (many) years ago I owned a pair of Quad ESL-63's which were really amazing but were never great with the wife and I ended up selling because of room limitations. I love the dynamics that the ML's have over the old Quad's. I've owned home built speakers ever since but it's time for a change. I'm now using the Emotiva UMC-1 processor and I'm starting to look at replacing my front R/L speakers soon.

I've owned a lot of tube gear over the years and have recently made the switch to the Emotiva amps which I like very much. No they're not tubes but my needs have changed. I still have my old KT88 amp in the closet which is a two piece unit that consists of a 100 pound power supply and seperate amp section. It is completely modded out with Teflon coupling caps, 12 Hy choke input, etc, etc. I also had 3 super modded out (Posiden circuit board, etc!) Dynaco MK IV's for the center and rear channels. I've pulled out the tube system because I just got tired of playing with tubes and needed a system that my wife and kids can turn on!

I'm looking at purchasing a used or demo pair of Spire's or the regular Summit's, not the Summit X. So far I'm leaning toward the Spire's but I would love some feedback for my decison. Thanks!

 

[MOON]

Have a look at this thread. http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10380
Cheers, Greg

 

[Rich]

Basically, I think you are going to get better deep bass with the original Summit, and better coherence between woofer and panel with the Spire. Can't really go wrong with either choice, in my opinion.

 

[Hogweed75]

Have a look at this thread. http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10380
Cheers, Greg

A lot of really good information there. Thanks! That's just what I needed.

Where I am located it's going to be hard to hear both speakers and it definately won't be together. I have heard the Summit's and really loved them but have not been able to hear the Spire's yet. I'm also going to be adding another pair of Fresco i's to sides for 7.1. But for stereo listening there's just nothing like a good pair of electrostatics for getting great imaging. It provides so much more of a euphoric sensation that moves you!

 

[JMAUSGP]

Just a thought. Some might say an evil one....

But you might want to try adding a Oppo BDP-83 or 83SE in place of your Samsung Bluray player.

Then you can play Dark Side of the Moon SACD or Beatles Love DVDA on your 7.1 system. Electrostats and MCH is the bees knees, you may move over to the dark side known as MCH.

 

[Hogweed75]

Just a thought. Some might say an evil one....

But you might want to try adding a Oppo BDP-83 or 83SE in place of your Samsung Bluray player.

Then you can play Dark Side of the Moon SACD or Beatles Love DVDA on your 7.1 system. Electrostats and MCH is the bees knees, you may move over to the dark side known as MCH.

I rarely use the Samsung at all. Usually just when I watch HD-DVD's that I want DD+, etc. from as tmt3 doesn't support the high end codec's from HD-dvd's anymore. Everything runs off my HTPC - DVD, Blu-ray, TV, music streaming. When I want to listen to high quality stereo then I usually use my Theta Gen III. It's excessively modded and still sounds really great! I had been using my Theta Data II for a CD transport but I recently sold it. I will most likely be purchasing an Oppo or something similar for CD and SACD usage.

 

[JMAUSGP]

I understand......I was just suggesting that High Resolution Multichannel SACD and DVD Audio sound pretty spectacular on Martin Logan panels with souround sound.

With what you have already, an OPPO 83SE would give you the best universal player for the buck and you might discover something new in addition to the Stereo euphoria that you have now.

Good luck and most important, enjoy the journey.

 

[adanny]

I understand......I was just suggesting that High Resolution Multichannel SACD and DVD Audio sound pretty spectacular on Martin Logan panels with souround sound.

With what you have already, an OPPO 83SE would give you the best universal player for the buck and you might discover something new in addition to the Stereo euphoria that you have now.

Good luck and most important, enjoy the journey.

as the resident MCH guru, what is your view on the future of SACD/DVD-audio? How much better do your SACDs sound than 2-ch sound processed into 7 channels (e.g. via Neo, Dolby Music etc)?

thnx

 

[JMAUSGP]

I wouldn't say I am the resident MCH guru, others like Jonfo are way ahead of me in their implementation and probably their experience too.

Again, I just point out that to me and others like me, discrete multi-channel sources gives a better overall experience than I or we get from just two channel or mono.

Maybe that is a good example. Listen to some of the Beatles new remastered Stereo songs on your two channel system and then listen to the same songs in the new Beatles Mono release. If one sounds less lifelike, engaging than the other well that is exactly the reaction I get from listening in two-channel versus the same in 5.1 discrete SACD or DVD Audio MCH source. Listening to the Beatles LOVE in DVD Audio, sitting in the CLX sweet spot, it just makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck, arms, feet, all over.
Listening to the same in Stereo...well not so much, the hair tends to just lay there, at least the hair I have left.

I also like matrixed sound and have owned or demoed just about all you could imagine, Quad, QSX, NEO, Dolby,tri-field, 6-Axis, which by the way was very good and one of my favorites for years.

Right now I like McCormack ARM or Ambient Recovery Mode, if memory serves me and I have invested in a custom built and modded MAP-1 by Steve McCormack himself. It takes any two channel source and makes it sound very close to SACD 5.1 discrete source material.

Anyway, SACD and DVD Audio will most likely be replaced by Bluray High Resolution Audio or some other format to be named later. Although I still am buying new releases in each on a monthly basis. The new Porcupine Tree DVD Audio release is due in two weeks, which I pre-ordered.

But to be honest, I don't care what replaces them as long as it gives a better experience than the current SACD and DVD Audio mixes of which there are both great and not so great examples. I have hundreds of SACD and DVD Audio discs that I play now and will play for many years to come. If something better comes out in MCH and beats the current SACD and DVD Audio experience then that is great, I will add it in to my mix, but I won't replace anything unless it out does the current crop of Dark Side of the Moon or Brother in Arms or Depeche Mode.

But I digress, assuming the mastering is done to take advantage of the discrete 5.1 channels then at least for me, there is no comparison to the two channel source. It is very close to comparing mono and Stereo. Again, I am not saying MCH is better than Stereo or Mono, it is just more of an experience for me to enjoy MCH. I like being immersed in the middle with sound all around, rushing through me from the back to the front, side to side, kind of like a virtual reality ride. I know for many people this is not a pleasant experience and I am okay with that. For many this is unnatural or gimmicky and I understand that, and I admire someone who pours money and effort and passion into making their two channel rig the best it can be, I get it, I really do. They get their euphoric experience from two channels and that is really great for them, it's just not enough for me, I need MCH to keep me enthralled, it's a sickness, a weakness I guess, but it is addicting too.

I am the same way with everything I do, cars, motorcycles, work, whatever it is, I always try to push to the next level. I always try to find the pinnacle and see if I can get on top of it, hopefully without breaking my neck.

And when it comes to MCH music, I usually can't listen to MCH music for more than 1 or 2 hours at a time because I am worn out physically and mentally, but that is what I like and that is what it does for me.

You asked, so I tried to give you an idea of what MCH is for me and how it compares, as always your YMMV. And if you really didn't want to know all this, then just chalk it up to experience, sometimes you waste your time and sometime your time wastes you, but be careful what you ask, you may find the answer is addicting.

 

[Hogweed75]

"I need MCH to keep me enthralled, it's a sickness, a weakness I guess, but it is addicting too." Hi I'm JMAUSGP and I'm a MCH-Aholic.

Just kidding! I like your passion. What ever works is what I feel and I love both great stereo and MCH if the disc is mixed right. I know what you mean though when a MCH is mixed right it's just awesome. Really great stereo also bounces things around in a spatial way that's kind of tricks your ears and causes a sensation that's very cool and mesmerizing. You would swear there were speakers around you that arn't really there. That's one thing I love about good stereo but I'm not a stereo snob. I love the technology that we have now days and enjoy it to the fullest. I remember when VHS HIFI stereo came out and I thought "finally...decent sound for watching concerts." Then it was really great when laser disc's came out. Connected to my old Theta DS-Pro and old Theta tube preamp I was in heaven! Concert videos is something I really love!

 

[adanny]

JMAUSGP: "I am the same way with everything I do, cars, motorcycles, work, whatever it is, I always try to push to the next level. I always try to find the pinnacle and see if I can get on top of it, hopefully without breaking my neck."

"I need MCH to keep me enthralled, it's a sickness, a weakness I guess, but it is addicting too." Hi I'm JMAUSGP and I'm a MCH-Aholic.....

...Overheard later at the same rehab center...

Tiger: I agree. I found Pinnacle and get on top of her too. But she did break my neck, and then she mouthed off to the press...
JMAUSGP: I think we're talking about different pinnacles. I'm talking about MCH and the pinnacle of sound
Tiger: You an MCH-holic? And I thought I had problems?

 

[Jimna]

Concert videos is something I really love!

preach that gospel brother hogweed! AMEN!

 

[JMAUSGP]

Yeah, I am from the Dale Carnegie Hall school of " How to win friends and addict other people" through MCH experience.

Addiction is easy, it's the quitting that's hard.

 

[JonFo]

Yeah, I am from the Dale Carnegie Hall school of " How to win friends and addict other people" through MCH experience.

Addiction is easy, it's the quitting that's hard.

Right there with 'ya buddy :music:

yep, MCH is the bomb. And even better if served up a by a preamp that totally locks in all speakers for timing and frequency balance as any Audyssey pro equipped unit can. Then all those awesome Steve Wilson mastered MCH recordings can really shine. That boy is a fracking genius.

As to the OP's dilema, I highly recommend the Spires and the use of a good sub for a MCH setup.

 

[wings]

back to...Spire vs Summit

I've had both the Summit and Spire, my personal preference was the Spire.
The bass was tighter, faster, mids and high end was more refined I thought.
The Summits just did not do it for me, there was some nice bass, but
it did not intergrate well with my 14x26x8' room for some reason...the Spires did though.
The Spire's are part of the lastest technology trickled down from ML's top speaker.
Naturally it all comes down to personal choice...but you can't go wrong with either set.