Speaker cable length

[Leon]

Hi
As my amplifiers are placed to one side of the speakers, I need different cable length to reach them; 3 and 5,5 meter respectively.
Will there be any difference between having the same length to each speaker and, more economically.., using only what's needed to reach each speaker?
Doubly important as I'm bi-wiring.

 

[twich54]

the simple answer is no, youre fine with making them the 'length to fit'. Now, with that being said if you think of selling them for something else down the road then re-sale would be much better if all were the same

 

[timm]

I would make them the same for the longer length just in case you want or need to move things in the future... Cost wise shouldn't be that much of a deal breaker I wouldn't think...

 

[Brad225]

I had the same concern previously.

At 60 cycles per second, the wavelength is 5000 kilometers per second. So 1.5 meters in a speaker cable would be......well you can do the math.


I agree with Timm about the reason for same length. They would also be easier to sell if needed.

 

[JordanD]

I wouldn't buy them at different lengths for a few reasons, but mainly for the fact that since you are talking about 1.5m longer on one side you are increasing the resistance on the longer side by about 54%. I did the calculations real quick to make sure. Now one way you could get around this is by getting a larger gauge on the longer cable, but then the timing issues might come into play.... so just buy cables that are the same length hahaha. These all may be negligible effects because we are dealing with short-ish runs of speaker wire and not missiles, but just to be sure I say stick to the same lengths.

 

[twich54]

I wouldn't buy them at different lengths for a few reasons, but mainly for the fact that since you are talking about 1.5m longer on one side you are increasing the resistance on the longer side by about 54%..

absolutly meaningless, there is no way in Gods green earth that you will EVER hear a difference !

 

[Leon]

Thank you all for your answers.
I was not thinking in terms of signal speed and timing, but on sonic quality.
If resistance increase with length, why not a change in the sonic signature?

The longer story is as follows;
I got to borrow home a set of cables (actually 3 and 6 meter respectively, in the event I would return them, since the dealer usually sold them in pairs of 3m) as I wanted to test bi-wiring my Theos. Actually, I was extremely satisfied with the sound as it was, but he was convinced that these cables were far better than those I had up till now.
Nevertheless, I had great doubt I would be able to hear any difference, doubting there were room for any more audible improvement in my present setup (the law of diminishing return springing into my mind)
But... there was no doubt; far better sound quality with the new pair. I guess partially due to the bi-wiring, but probably most due to the inherent quality in the new cable.

So my reflections were that if I could experience this big sound quality upgrade due to the new cable, is it unlikely that the double length also could have audible impact?
As far as I know, cable length matters, regarding signal quality when we're talking about signal cables as HDMI and CAT-5. Why not speaker cables?

 

[Bevensee]

absolutly meaningless, there is no way in Gods green earth that you will EVER hear a difference !

If we assume that there is anything in this whole cable ting, then yes, of cause it makes a difference. If cables don't matter, then no.

 

[Bevensee]

Thank you all for your answers.
I was not thinking in terms of signal speed and timing, but on sonic quality.
If resistance increase with length, why not a change in the sonic signature?

The longer story is as follows;
I got to borrow home a set of cables (actually 3 and 6 meter respectively, in the event I would return them, since the dealer usually sold them in pairs of 3m) as I wanted to test bi-wiring my Theos. Actually, I was extremely satisfied with the sound as it was, but he was convinced that these cables were far better than those I had up till now.
Nevertheless, I had great doubt I would be able to hear any difference, doubting there were room for any more audible improvement in my present setup (the law of diminishing return springing into my mind)
But... there was no doubt; far better sound quality with the new pair. I guess partially due to the bi-wiring, but probably most due to the inherent quality in the new cable.

So my reflections were that if I could experience this big sound quality upgrade due to the new cable, is it unlikely that the double length also could have audible impact?
As far as I know, cable length matters, regarding signal quality when we're talking about signal cables as HDMI and CAT-5. Why not speaker cables?

You are riht regardin resitance. The impedance of electrostats is very low at high frequencies. This puts demands on the cables in the sense that if the cable resistance is to high, you will get a treble roll-off. As the resistance of the cable increases with length, so will this effect.

 

[JordanD]

absolutly meaningless, there is no way in Gods green earth that you will EVER hear a difference !

Thank you for reiterating something I said in my original post haha but it nevertheless is a fact

 

[twich54]

If we assume that there is anything in this whole cable ting, then yes, of cause it makes a difference. If cables don't matter, then no.

not exactly sure of what you speak, but simply put the small incremental difference in length is one which YOU WILL NEVER HEAR. The resistance differential is MEANINGLESS, for the record if you're going to get hot and bothered with respect to Logans, cable capacitence with respect to length is 'the' important item.........man-o-man, I would love to bet anyone to do a DBT on this one, I'd be happy to take your money !!

Again..........the primary reason to equalize length in the Op's scenario is for future changes / resale

 

[Bevensee]

not exactly sure of what you speak, but simply put the small incremental difference in length is one which YOU WILL NEVER HEAR. The resistance differential is MEANINGLESS, for the record if you're going to get hot and bothered with respect to Logans, cable capacitence with respect to length is 'the' important item.........man-o-man, I would love to bet anyone to do a DBT on this one, I'd be happy to take your money !!

Again..........the primary reason to equalize length in the Op's scenario is for future changes / resale

My only point is that I find a bit contradicting when people say one one hand cables matter, but on the other hand, their length doesn't. I'm not saying cables doesn't matter (I've never really tested it, but I know that most of what cable producers claim is nonsense), but if it matters, then the length must also matter.

 

[Tosh]

You are riht regardin resitance. The impedance of electrostats is very low at high frequencies. This puts demands on the cables in the sense that if the cable resistance is to high, you will get a treble roll-off. As the resistance of the cable increases with length, so will this effect.

I think you mean to say "that if the cable >inductance< is too high, then you will get treble roll-off"? Pure resistance is not frequency dependent...?

 

[repman]

My only point is that I find a bit contradicting when people say one one hand cables matter, but on the other hand, their length doesn't. I'm not saying cables doesn't matter (I've never really tested it, but I know that most of what cable producers claim is nonsense), but if it matters, then the length must also matter.

My wife says length does not matter so it must not !

 

[Bevensee]

I think you mean to say "that if the cable >inductance< is too high, then you will get treble roll-off"? Pure resistance is not frequency dependent...?

Since the resistance of the speaker varies with frequency, the voltage division between speaker and cable will be speaker dependent. In an extreme example, if the cable resistance is 1 Ohm, and the the magintude of the speaker impedance is 1 Ohm at a certain frequency, the amp will see a 2 Ohm impedance and half the energy will be lost in the cable. If the speaker impedance at another frequency is 10 Ohms, only 10% of the energy will be lost in the cable at that frequency. So more energy will be lost in the cable at high frequencies which will result in treble roll-off.

Noel Keywood actually tried connecting a resistor in series with the cable when testing an electromotion because he wanted to see if it would make it an easier load for a low cost receiver. He reports severe treble attenuation precisely for this reason.

Obviously, iductance and capacitance will only make matters worse. And the longer the cable, the worse the effect.

 

[twich54]

My wife says length does not matter so it must not !

Larry, good hearing from you.....as we know, wives are always right !!

 

[repman]

Dave how have you been ? I have been super busy at work these days with a lot of travel and have not been on here to much . Getting the Vette ready for a track day at Atlanta Motorsports Park tomorrow should be a blast if the rain stays away

 

[Leon]

Since the resistance of the speaker varies with frequency, the voltage division between speaker and cable will be speaker dependent. In an extreme example, if the cable resistance is 1 Ohm, and the the magintude of the speaker impedance is 1 Ohm at a certain frequency, the amp will see a 2 Ohm impedance and half the energy will be lost in the cable. If the speaker impedance at another frequency is 10 Ohms, only 10% of the energy will be lost in the cable at that frequency. So more energy will be lost in the cable at high frequencies which will result in treble roll-off.

Noel Keywood actually tried connecting a resistor in series with the cable when testing an electromotion because he wanted to see if it would make it an easier load for a low cost receiver. He reports severe treble attenuation precisely for this reason.

Obviously, iductance and capacitance will only make matters worse. And the longer the cable, the worse the effect.

Ok...
I'm not too familiar with resistance, inductance or capacitance, nor how they may make any impact to the sonic quality given that I have a pair of Theos. So please help me...
I reckon many of you know the Theos' qualities (and resistance profile) in great detail.
The question is; given the actual cable lengths and my Theos, what should I do?

I have three options;
1. Keep my cables as I got them from my dealer (3 & 6 meter)
2. Cut the longer cable to the minimum, i.e. 5 meter.
3. Return both cables and get a pair of 5 meter.

...and let's assume that cables really matters...
At least to me they do; as I am in no doubt that the new cables introduced an audible quality improvement. Or; at least one that I prefer over the former.

 

[JordanD]

To keep this whole debate to a minimum, just get cables that are the same length. It makes everyone happy and solves all problems haha

 

[Bevensee]

Ok...
I'm not too familiar with resistance, inductance or capacitance, nor how they may make any impact to the sonic quality given that I have a pair of Theos. So please help me...
I reckon many of you know the Theos' qualities (and resistance profile) in great detail.
The question is; given the actual cable lengths and my Theos, what should I do?

I have three options;
1. Keep my cables as I got them from my dealer (3 & 6 meter)
2. Cut the longer cable to the minimum, i.e. 5 meter.
3. Return both cables and get a pair of 5 meter.

...and let's assume that cables really matters...
At least to me they do; as I am in no doubt that the new cables introduced an audible quality improvement. Or; at least one that I prefer over the former.

All of this is under the assumption that cables actually makes a difference, which I am not even sure they do. Perhaps it is true that for any realistic length of cable, the R,L and C values are to low to make an audible difference. In that case, I suppose the best would be to get you money back

On the other hand, if cables make a difference to you, you could place the speakers in the middle of the room next to each other, connect one with the long cable and one with the short. Get a mono test track of white noise, switch back and forth between left only and right only, and test if you can hear a difference. Next step is to repeat with a mono recording of music. Swap the cables and repeat the test just to make sure that you are not fooled by the speaker placement or other.

If you hear a difference, get same cable length, if you don't, keep your cables as they are.

trust your ears and enjoy the music