Soundstage depth

[VanDaRo]

So I installed some GIK room treatments to the room a couple weeks ago. I really enjoy the improvements in imaging and how the detail pops right out at you. The one thing I noticed that was kind of a bummer was that the speakers presented a more "forward" presentation -- as if you got up and moved 5 rows ahead in the auditorium.

This is not a bad thing, but I'm something of a soundstage-depth-junkie. So I decided to try a fix it today. I moved the speakers out 2 inches and closer together by 1 inch.

TAH-DAH !!!!

Problem fixed and then some.... I have no idea why or how this worked.

For those considering adding acoustic treatments to your listening room for the first time, keep this in mind.

VanDaRo is happy again.

~VDR

 

[DTB300]

For those considering adding acoustic treatments to your listening room for the first time, keep this in mind.

Placement of speakers and seating is always the first thing to try to correct in a room before treatments. Then as you found out, after adding, things may still need to be moved around.

With all the treatments I have added, I never found the sound to be more forward sounding as you put it. With the control of your bass, maybe you were starting to hear more of the mids and highs which were clouded by the bad bass response in the room - hence it became brighter sounding.

 

[sleepysurf]

Which GIK panels did you get? Any of them bass traps? How much immediate improvement did you notice? I just received a GIK Elite Pillar (Bass) Trap, and one of their Elite Table Traps, but won't have time to listen until tomorrow. I still need to order absorptive panels to place behind my Summits, but will likely use 2" panels from this source...
http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soft-sound-anchorage.html

 

[Rich]

Sleepy, I would urge you to do a little research before you purchase those panels. I don't know anything about them, so can't tell you whether they are good or bad. But I looked all over their website and couldn't find any information about frequency range absorption.

Their "technical data sheet" tells you all kinds of useless information, but has no information on frequency range absorption. Why are you buying these? To absorb sound. So why wouldn't the company give you the data on how well their product does that? I wouldn't buy acoustic panels from a company that didn't do independent testing and provide the data. You just can't trust that they will perform to your needs.

Remember, to get the best effect from your acoustic treatments behind your Summits, you need panels that absorb well and evenly from about 250 hz. up to 20,000 hz. If these panels don't absorb down into the mid-bass you are not going to hear the kind of performance your speakers are capable of. 400 hz. will reflect and cause a muddying of your soundstage and imaging just like 4000 hz. unless it can be absorbed. Just food for thought.

 

[JonFo]

Sleepy, I'll second Rich's advice.

It seem those panels are just fabric wrapped Fiberglass.

Maybe good down to about 500Hz if just mounted on the wall.

The RealTraps MiniTrap HF, when mounted 2" or 3" from the wall will be effective down to 250Hz or so. This is the recommended treatment to put behind the panels.

Not as WAF friendly as could be, but it's what works.

 

[VanDaRo]

The ones I bought are the GIK 242 models (3 of them) and are about 3.5 inches thick including the frame that stands them off from the wall. They work, but likely not as well as the RealTraps. But since I am new to room treatments, I didn't want to dump a grand into something I was unsure and uneducated about.

But today I stand before you, a dude convinced of their value.

~VDR

 

[sleepysurf]

Thanks guys. I'll look into their absorption specs further! The RealTraps stuff is great, but there's no way I can get my wife to ''sign off'' on them!

 

[Rich]

Sleepy, there are ways . . . and then there are ways. What about the idea of mounting a nice looking curtain rod (3' to 4' length) with some really nice drapes on the wall behind each speaker? This would effectively cover the panels from view and still look very nicely decorated. If done right, it could really enhance the look of the whole system.

 

[sleepysurf]

Actually, the company DID send me aborption specs with the samples! The sound absorption coefficients for the 2" cloth wrapped fiberglass "soft-sound" panels are (sorry for the misaligned columns)...

125 250 500 1000 2000 4000Hz
0.25 0.89 1.17 1.16 1.10 1.08


Looks like they still have adequate (though not stellar), absorption in the lower frequencies. To address this, I plan on buying two 2' x 4' panels, to be mounted on the wall behind my Summits (bottom of panel 18" off the floor). I'll also get CUSTOM 2' x 2' square panels to sit on the floor and lean against the bottom of the wall panels, for additional bass trapping behind the woofer cabinets. After testing how this sounds, I might buy (or DIY) additional panels to place behind my component rack, and elsewhere.

Waddya think?

 

[sleepysurf]

Rich, I actually proposed the curtain idea to my wife, but we'd need to use the same fabric as the adjacent curtains, which, unfortunately, is no longer available. The acoustic panels will be neutral colored, and we plan to get a large tapestry for additional acoustic absorption higher up on the wall.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I like the 244's

:rocker::rocker:I have played around with a few different panels and must say that the gik 244's sound really good and if you take some care for placement they look good as well. I also like the qfuser from Auralex but they are are a pain in the butt beacuse you have to paint them other than that they sound good and look really cool! my logans really bloomed once i got some coverage on the walls.trust your ear not just the specs those gik baby's really use a lot of material in them.

 

[JonFo]

Actually, the company DID send me aborption specs with the samples! The sound absorption coefficients for the 2" cloth wrapped fiberglass "soft-sound" panels are (sorry for the misaligned columns)...

125 250 500 1000 2000 4000Hz
0.25 0.89 1.17 1.16 1.10 1.08


Looks like they still have adequate (though not stellar), absorption in the lower frequencies. To address this, I plan on buying two 2' x 4' panels, to be mounted on the wall behind my Summits (bottom of panel 18" off the floor). I'll also get CUSTOM 2' x 2' square panels to sit on the floor and lean against the bottom of the wall panels, for additional bass trapping behind the woofer cabinets. After testing how this sounds, I might buy (or DIY) additional panels to place behind my component rack, and elsewhere.

Waddya think?

Hi Sleepy,


It's about par for the course for OC 705. With an on-the-wall 0.9 at 250, it's not horrible, but offset a bit from the wall, and you raise it close to 1.

Your plan is a good start, and will be better than nothing, and as I'm proving, one can never have too many treatments around, so you'll find a use for them if you upgrade later.

 

[sleepysurf]

Thanks guys! Combined with the GIK Pillar Trap and Table Trap that I just got, I think the "Soft Sound" panels will be sufficient. Unfortunately, GIK doesn't offer the textured Anchorage fabric line that my wife liked, nor do they offer the "stepped bevel" edge. I placed my order today, but since some of the panels are custom-sized, will take 2-3 wks for delivery. I'll post an update/pics ASAP.