Outlaw 2200 mono amps

[compaddict]

I'm thinking of selling my Pass labs Aleph 2 monoblocks and going to Outlaw Audio's 2200 monos.
The 2200's have balanced inputs, auto switch power on and would use about 1/40th of the power of my Aleph Twos.
I'm thinking that I would also have to run my AC a lot less as well.
Does anyone here have any high end experience with the 2200?

TIA,

Vince

 

[Audioseduction]

I wonder what class G amplification sounds like, maybe similar to class D. I wonder....

 

[compaddict]

It is the direct reverse of what I have now, that's for sure.

Vince

 

[Rich]

I'm thinking of selling my Pass labs Aleph 2 monoblocks and going to Outlaw Audio's 2200 monos.
The 2200's have balanced inputs, auto switch power on and would use about 1/40th of the power of my Aleph Twos.
I'm thinking that I would also have to run my AC a lot less as well.
Does anyone here have any high end experience with the 2200?

TIA,

Vince

I have a pair of the 2200 monos that I used for biamping my Ascents. They worked great on the woofers, and I had a CJ Premier 140 tube amp running the panels. I personally have not used them and would not recommend them for use on the panels. These amps do not double down their output wattage with a halving of impedence, which is not a good sign for their ability to drive electrostats.

I just can't imagine that these amps would sound so great pushing a CLS. I would be very surprised if you were satisfied with these running your CLS after having Pass Labs Alephs on them. If you are looking for a powerful amplifier that can push the CLS without a lot of heat being generated, there are options. Sunfire, Sanders Sound Systems, and others come to mind. Even a Plinius switched to Class A/B bias would probably sound a lot better and put off very little heat.

I know these monos are insanely inexpensive, but remember that comes at a cost as far as build quality. I recommend them often for home theater surround channels or for woofer duty in a biamped setup, but I would certainly not recommend them for running the CLS full range.

 

[Beakman]

Sound like Beak baiting here

I have had a pair for 2 years or so now . . . so . . .
First, compaddict, keep your Pass and buy a pair of the 2200,s. If you can't tell if you like them within the 30 day return policy then maybe they just are that good or something else is going on.
As for build quality, no, they probably don't have the brick s***house build of some mega-buck amps. But I have had them run for one month solid 24/7 in their class A output, shorted them while vacuuming (wow! look at the pretty sparks!) and fiddleing in unrecommended ways, and to no detriment. Meanwhile, I've just read here on this forum about a much costlier amp s***ing the bed straight out of the box, two more "high end" pieces of equipment being broken or problematic, and memory of a recent magazine review in which another well known coveted brand came from the manufacturur with a bum channel.
Also, I run Vantages with them, so it is panel only by the amps and I seriously question if there is any gain to be had without replacing every other component as well.

 

[Rich]

Beak,

I am not saying the 2200's are built for crap. I actually think they are built very well for what they cost. What I am saying is that they are not really designed to handle the difficult load that an electrostatic speaker presents and will not sound as good as a more capable amp.

I am not sure what you mean by running them "in their class A output." These amps are not Class A. They operate in Class G/ A/B. They do have balanced XLR input connectors and perhaps this is what you mean.

If these amps push your Vantages sufficiently for you, then I do agree with you that it may make sense to upgrade your other components before you do these amps. But for someone looking to upgrade from a Pass Aleph on a pair of CLS, I think these monoblocs are a very poor choice.

More importantly, I don't think you can begin to compare your experience running these amps with the Vantages, which have a sensitivity of 92 db, to running them with full-range electrostatics like the CLS, which has a sensitivity between 86 db and 88 db (depending on the exact model) and is much more difficult to drive.

 

[compaddict]

I'm running an electronic crossover before my loudspeakers which should make an easier load for whatever amp.

I'll order a set, break them in and get back.

Thanks,

Vince

 

[SundayNiagara]

I'm thinking of selling my Pass labs Aleph 2 monoblocks and going to Outlaw Audio's 2200 monos.
The 2200's have balanced inputs, auto switch power on and would use about 1/40th of the power of my Aleph Twos.
I'm thinking that I would also have to run my AC a lot less as well.
Does anyone here have any high end experience with the 2200?

TIA,

Vince

Based on what I've read about the Outlaw 2200 in this thread AND the respect I have for Nelson Pass and his designs, I'd say you'll be taking a major step backwards.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Beak,

I am not saying the 2200's are built for crap. I actually think they are built very well for what they cost. What I am saying is that they are not really designed to handle the difficult load that an electrostatic speaker presents and will not sound as good as a more capable amp.

I am not sure what you mean by running them "in their class A output." These amps are not Class A. They operate in Class G/ A/B. They do have balanced XLR input connectors and perhaps this is what you mean.

If these amps push your Vantages sufficiently for you, then I do agree with you that it may make sense to upgrade your other components before you do these amps. But for someone looking to upgrade from a Pass Aleph on a pair of CLS, I think these monoblocs are a very poor choice.

More importantly, I don't think you can begin to compare your experience running these amps with the Vantages, which have a sensitivity of 92 db, to running them with full-range electrostatics like the CLS, which has a sensitivity between 86 db and 88 db (depending on the exact model) and is much more difficult to drive.

Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rich]

Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!

Alright, Vince. Sunday and I don't agree on too much so you definitely need to take notice of this.

I suggest you also try a free audition of Sanders Sound ESL amplifier and compare it with the 2200 monoblocs. That would give you a good feel for what a high-current amplifier (that runs cool) can do for your system.

The problem with the 2200 is that it is not a high-current design and will have a problem handling the impedence swings of the CLS. I expect your high end will suffer, and probably your dynamics as well.

 

[compaddict]

Very interesting. Nelson talked to me about modifing my twos just to work with my stats. Let me do some research and see what he comes up with.

many thanks!!

Vince

 

[holmancv]

My experience with Outlaw

I use these forums for educational purposes and rarely "chime in" when things heat up. I began my system upgrade by plugging in seven M2200's into the back of my Denon 2105 to get more power to my Mosiacs. These seven monoblocks have been running almost continuously for two and a half years. I know the Mosiacs are not true electrostatics and require less sophisticated amplification. I also know that as sure as the sun rises those Outlaws will start up every time I ask them to. I suggest that aside from this august forum you contact the Outlaw web site with your specific technical questions. Yes, they may be bias but I have never done business with a better group of people. I hope you resolve this issue to your satisfaction and I appreciate your time this morning.

 

[compaddict]

I talked with Nelson and the mods he talked about a few years ago does not change how much current his amps draw.
I kind of knew it wouldn't!

Vince

 

[compaddict]

Two Outlaws on the way. More later.

vince

 

[Beakman]

Two Outlaws on the way. More later.

vince

Good. Hopefully you still have your Aleph's to do a comparison with. If not, I have an Innersound on its way for the very same reason, inspired by this thread. Unfortunately for me, all my stuff is packed away in storage awaiting a new abode, so it may be some time getting around to it.

 

[compaddict]

I did a A/B between the Aleph 2's and the Outlaws and the Outlaws lose about 5-10% of the the fine resolution of the Alephs.
The Outlaws sound a little strained playing loud music as well.
I listened to the Outlaws first and found them quite enjoyable and very dynamic. Switching to the Alephs gave more resolution between individual instruments and less strain right off the bat.
So far I find the Outlaws a very good buy for the money. At one tenth the cost of the Alephs, they stack up very well.
I'll break in the outlaws and do another review in a few weeks.

vince

 

[eknuds01]

We get these posts (about Outlaw amps) quite often. They seem to offer tremendous bang for the buck. Emotiva comes to mind as do used Sunfire amps.

Erik

 

[Nik]

I will soon (hopefully in the next week/ 1.5 weeks) have a compairson of Emotiva vs Sunfire.

 

[compaddict]

Do they make mono blocks?

Vince

I will soon (hopefully in the next week/ 1.5 weeks) have a compairson of Emotiva vs Sunfire.

 

[Nik]

No not yet but they are in the works- maybe two months from now, hopefully sooner! 500w at 8 ohm, 1000w at 4 ohm. Have pushed out 2000w during bench testing (what we have been told). Cost: $899 + shipping
Nik

From post:http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=1656
Well I finished testing it today so I will throw out a few specs here for everyone.

Here is the official specs:
500 wRMS into 8 ohms at 0.008 THD.
1000 wRMS into 4 ohms at 0.008 THD.

This is a fully balanced amplifier from in to out (which is one of the reasons for the ultra low THD).

24) 250 watt output transistors, so it has a boat load of overload capacity.

1800va transformer (at least that is what I spec'ed, but it looked like a 2KVA, so I will need to do a little more digging.

Un=officially the power ratings are very conservative, I will tell you that under one of my test I measured 1.75K watts RMS, thats right continuous not peak. Don't ask me what the test conditions were because I won't say (we don't want anyone trying it at home) but it did almost 2000 watts without even a grunt. Peak power is off the scale, it has dynamic peaks that are just insane.

We still have a couple of small items to dial in. The frequency response was 5 to 200,000hz (-3db) which means it plays well beyond 500Khz. Now that would turn it into an AM broadcast amplifier and turn your crossovers and tweeters into a smoking, melted pile of metal. So I need to pull it back to around 100Khz and it should be good to go into production.

Other than that she's a beast wrapped in silk. Between 20 to 20khz the frequency response is within 0.125db deviation, so she is as smooth as glass.

If you've got a big swinging pair and your motto is go big or go home, then this is certainly the amp for you.