Opinions on Beemers and similar (cars)?

[jfm]

er, how much for the R8

Seriously, how are the early impressions of that model?

 

[Dominick22]

LOL--the R8!

I can sell you one right now and take full payment today if you are ready for delivery in 2009!

Seriously-we are already sold out until then! I hope you are not planning on negotiating the price!ha

Dominick

Very funny though-I actually had a guy call today saying that he was going to buy the 335 when he stumbled across the new A5. It is coming out shortly. Maybe the thread author might consider it.

Dominick again!

 

[Joey_V]

er, how much for the R8

Seriously, how are the early impressions of that model?

R8 is sick, yo!

Read that review between the R8, 911T, and Vantage..... personally, I like the Vantage for all out, balls out, machisimo. The 911T for all out speed and it's 4x4 usability. And the R8 for its Mozart-ness!

 

[Joey_V]

Joey,

You are going to be a doctor. M3 nice but get an M5...now that is nice car!!!

Dennis,

The M5 may be nice, but it is quite expensive.... and the new M3 is just about as fast but without the size... so I dunno if the new M3 is a downgrade....

BTW, I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves!! LOL! Let me focus on polishing up my driving skills with mah Geeh!

Joey

 

[jk319]

New M3 has 4.0L V-8 @ 414hp.

 

[Joey_V]

New M3 has 4.0L V-8 @ 414hp.

Yup, and without the size.

 

[akm3]

One more vote for Subaru. They do everything as good or better then the 'look at me <STATUS!!!>" brands, and cost less and are more reliable.

Subaru Legacy 3.0r or Subaru Legacy Spec-B are both fantastic drivers cars.

If they offered a spec.b Wagon in the states I would be in it.

-Allen

 

[Rich]

One more vote for Subaru. They do everything as good or better then the 'look at me <STATUS!!!>" brands, and cost less and are more reliable.

Subaru Legacy 3.0r or Subaru Legacy Spec-B are both fantastic drivers cars.

If they offered a spec.b Wagon in the states I would be in it.

-Allen

I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this post, but I can't believe you guys are seriously trying to put Subaru in the same class as these other cars (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Volvo, Infiniti, etc.). Look at the specs. Look at available options. Look at the technology employed. The only things Subarus do as good or better than these other cars is perhaps gas mileage and price. I'm not saying that they aren't fine cars, but they are just not at the same level when it comes to horsepower, torque, maneuverability, traction, braking, ergonomics, comfort and convenience, gadgetry, available options, etc. etc. etc. Subaru's top end Legacy has specs similar to the most basic BMW, and nowhere near the feature and option availability. Heck, you can't even get a manual transmission on the Legacy and it's standard auto only has five speeds. How can you call that a "driver's car"?

Sure they are less expensive. But the fact is that most people that are considering a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Infiniti are just not going to put Subaru on their list of cars to even bother looking at. Again, I'm not saying they are bad cars. I'm sure they are great for the money. But please don't try to pretend they are at the level of the cars being discussed in this thread. They are just not in the same league.

 

[akm3]

I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this post, but I can't believe you guys are seriously trying to put Subaru in the same class as these other cars (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Volvo, Infiniti, etc.). Look at the specs. Look at available options. Look at the technology employed. The only things Subarus do as good or better than these other cars is perhaps gas mileage and price. I'm not saying that they aren't fine cars, but they are just not at the same level when it comes to horsepower, torque, maneuverability, traction, braking, ergonomics, comfort and convenience, gadgetry, available options, etc. etc. etc. Subaru's top end Legacy has specs similar to the most basic BMW, and nowhere near the feature and option availability. Heck, you can't even get a manual transmission on the Legacy and it's standard auto only has five speeds. How can you call that a "driver's car"?

Sure they are less expensive. But the fact is that most people that are considering a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Infiniti are just not going to put Subaru on their list of cars to even bother looking at. Again, I'm not saying they are bad cars. I'm sure they are great for the money. But please don't try to pretend they are at the level of the cars being discussed in this thread. They are just not in the same league.

No offense taken.

However,

The Subaru is as good or better then the luxury brands in: horsepower, torque, maneuverability, traction, braking. (Look at real world performance results not just the specs)

Subaru needs work to catch up in: ergonomics, comfort and convenience, gadgetry, available options. Especially Available options. Subaru is awful with their options.

As a Martin Logan lover, I am convinced you understand the difference between Specs and Actual Real World Performance. As a drivers car, the high performance Subaru's are as good or better then their elitist german counterparts.

Test drive one before you judge =D

Also you CAN get Manual Transmission on the Legacy, in fact the Spec.B comes with a 6 speed manual standard and will destroy most BMW's (the "M"'s excluded, at over twice the price) around a track. You and many others being unaware of this fact owes to Subaru's awful marketing.

They ARE at the same level and represent an incredible value. You are right most people shopping for the Luxo brands wouldn't even consider a Subaru. That is because they still have the granola, lesbian, soccer mom image so ingrained in the society that folks don't realize what an amazing package is hiding under their nose. Of course, even the high end packages look like the Soccer-mom cars, so those prestige buyers wouldn't consider it anyway. Their loss!

-Allen

 

[Joey_V]

I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this post, but I can't believe you guys are seriously trying to put Subaru in the same class as these other cars (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Volvo, Infiniti, etc.). Look at the specs. Look at available options. Look at the technology employed. The only things Subarus do as good or better than these other cars is perhaps gas mileage and price. I'm not saying that they aren't fine cars, but they are just not at the same level when it comes to horsepower, torque, maneuverability, traction, braking, ergonomics, comfort and convenience, gadgetry, available options, etc. etc. etc. Subaru's top end Legacy has specs similar to the most basic BMW, and nowhere near the feature and option availability. Heck, you can't even get a manual transmission on the Legacy and it's standard auto only has five speeds. How can you call that a "driver's car"?

Sure they are less expensive. But the fact is that most people that are considering a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Infiniti are just not going to put Subaru on their list of cars to even bother looking at. Again, I'm not saying they are bad cars. I'm sure they are great for the money. But please don't try to pretend they are at the level of the cars being discussed in this thread. They are just not in the same league.

Rich!

When are you getting your new car? I recently saw the current SLK at the parking garage and boy, up close and personal, it is one nice slick machine.... are you updating yours to the new model or have you been looking at the other cars like we talked about at the Meet?

 

[Rich]

Rich!

When are you getting your new car? I recently saw the current SLK at the parking garage and boy, up close and personal, it is one nice slick machine.... are you updating yours to the new model or have you been looking at the other cars like we talked about at the Meet?

Hey Joey,

I sooooo wish I was upgrading mine to the SLK 350. I absolutely love their styling. They are so much better looking than the 320. However, what with child on the way . . . as well as my two-seater jag (someday when the restorer is done with it) . . . I really need to get a four-door sedan. I will probably trade in the SLK sometime over the next few months. Not sure what I want yet. Lots of research and test driving to do. I'll keep you updated.

 

[Rich]

No offense taken.

However,

The Subaru is as good or better then the luxury brands in: horsepower, torque, maneuverability, traction, braking. (Look at real world performance results not just the specs)

Subaru needs work to catch up in: ergonomics, comfort and convenience, gadgetry, available options. Especially Available options. Subaru is awful with their options.

As a Martin Logan lover, I am convinced you understand the difference between Specs and Actual Real World Performance. As a drivers car, the high performance Subaru's are as good or better then their elitist german counterparts.

Test drive one before you judge =D

Also you CAN get Manual Transmission on the Legacy, in fact the Spec.B comes with a 6 speed manual standard and will destroy most BMW's (the "M"'s excluded, at over twice the price) around a track. You and many others being unaware of this fact owes to Subaru's awful marketing.

They ARE at the same level and represent an incredible value. You are right most people shopping for the Luxo brands wouldn't even consider a Subaru. That is because they still have the granola, lesbian, soccer mom image so ingrained in the society that folks don't realize what an amazing package is hiding under their nose. Of course, even the high end packages look like the Soccer-mom cars, so those prestige buyers wouldn't consider it anyway. Their loss!

-Allen

Thanks for the correction regarding the manual trans. I was looking at the info. for the Legacy 3.0 when I made that statement. The spec.B looks like a nice car for the money. But I still hold to my contention that for people who have the money to spend and are looking for the complete package, the Subaru is just not on the same level as the luxury brands.

 

[jk319]

No offense taken.

However,

The Subaru is as good or better then the luxury brands in: horsepower, torque, maneuverability, traction, braking. (Look at real world performance results not just the specs)

Subaru needs work to catch up in: ergonomics, comfort and convenience, gadgetry, available options. Especially Available options. Subaru is awful with their options.

As a Martin Logan lover, I am convinced you understand the difference between Specs and Actual Real World Performance. As a drivers car, the high performance Subaru's are as good or better then their elitist german counterparts.

Test drive one before you judge =D

Also you CAN get Manual Transmission on the Legacy, in fact the Spec.B comes with a 6 speed manual standard and will destroy most BMW's (the "M"'s excluded, at over twice the price) around a track. You and many others being unaware of this fact owes to Subaru's awful marketing.

They ARE at the same level and represent an incredible value. You are right most people shopping for the Luxo brands wouldn't even consider a Subaru. That is because they still have the granola, lesbian, soccer mom image so ingrained in the society that folks don't realize what an amazing package is hiding under their nose. Of course, even the high end packages look like the Soccer-mom cars, so those prestige buyers wouldn't consider it anyway. Their loss!

-Allen

I agree.

Very generally speaking, many people that buy a higher-end Subaru (or perhaps a Mits Evo) love to drive, and drive fast and corner hard.

Also very generally speaking, most people who buy a Benz, BMW, Volvo, Infiniti, etc do not know the first thing about cars. They just happen to be sexier.

For better or worse, I like the second category. I find Subaru and Evo to be decidedly unsexy. However, maybe five years ago, test driving a slew of cars (never bought) I was damn close to a WRX.

If I was a car racer, however, they would be two of the first cars Id be looking at. Entry level Lexus have poor power, and the luxury models are nice and powerful and all, but drive like boats in comparison. The greater portion of Acura's are front-wheel. Blah blah ,etc etc. Racers I've talked to (both of the legal and illegal sort) believe a Subaru or Evo would smoke many luxury models (including BMW and Benz, again not the best offerings) on the track. Volvo's? Forget about it.

Anyways.... They don't compare to the BEST of the other brands, but I wouldn't discount Subaru as a Driver's Car so easily either.

 

[akm3]

I agree.

Very generally speaking, many people that buy a higher-end Subaru (or perhaps a Mits Evo) love to drive, and drive fast and corner hard.

Also very generally speaking, most people who buy a Benz, BMW, Volvo, Infiniti, etc do not know the first thing about cars. They just happen to be sexier.

For better or worse, I like the second category. I find Subaru and Evo to be decidedly unsexy. However, maybe five years ago, test driving a slew of cars (never bought) I was damn close to a WRX.

If I was a car racer, however, they would be two of the first cars Id be looking at. Entry level Lexus have poor power, and the luxury models are nice and powerful and all, but drive like boats in comparison. The greater portion of Acura's are front-wheel. Blah blah ,etc etc. Racers I've talked to (both of the legal and illegal sort) believe a Subaru or Evo would smoke many luxury models (including BMW and Benz, again not the best offerings) on the track. Volvo's? Forget about it.

Anyways.... They don't compare to the BEST of the other brands, but I wouldn't discount Subaru as a Driver's Car so easily either.

We can ALL agree Subaru do not have that elusive "Sex appeal" that drives buyers to brands like BMW, and I also agree that buyers with money will generally purchase the status vehicles and not even consider a Subaru.

My point is that drivers who want a real drivers car without paying the status premium (i.e. Value) should at least consider Subaru. And those WITH money who aren't considered about halo status and want good value should at least test drive one before writing them off =D

But yes, for a 30+ year old, the Mitsu Evo and Subaru STi are very unsexy, but will certainly get the heart racing =D

And a Subaru Forester XT will blow the doors off almost any 'Halo status' vehicle. But if you want 'total package' you will be left wanting.

/edit: One last pro-Subaru point I want to make that most people don't know about: They are among the safest cars on the road, equaling or surpassing Volvo who has been riding the marketing of safety for years while doing very little to actually improve it.
-Allen

 

[Dominick22]

Is the M3 rear wheel drive?

Because if it is-all you really told us is that you can go through a set of tires in 5 minutes!lol

Dominick

ps-remember that just because your wheels are spinning does not mean that you are creating lateral acceleration.

 

[kwr]

Thanks for the correction regarding the manual trans. I was looking at the info. for the Legacy 3.0 when I made that statement. The spec.B looks like a nice car for the money. But I still hold to my contention that for people who have the money to spend and are looking for the complete package, the Subaru is just not on the same level as the luxury brands.

You would be right there. Better put together, more reliable, cheaper to repair, faster through the corners, proper tyres, space to travel four adults and would sell like the priverbial if it had a blue and white propellor on the front and a little tricking up in the interior.

Go and drive one of the upper level ones and it is not the level of a 330i but is a goodly part of the way there.

Incidentally my wife and I are 42 yr old tragics driving modified turbo Subarus and we own ML and Plinius and listen to classical music- sorry.

Kevin

 

[Rich]

Is the M3 rear wheel drive?

Because if it is-all you really told us is that you can go through a set of tires in 5 minutes!lol

Dominick

ps-remember that just because your wheels are spinning does not mean that you are creating lateral acceleration.

Yes, the M3 is rear wheel drive . . . and can go zero to 60 in under five seconds. Yes, you can burn rubber in first gear all the way up to redline if you want, but all that proves is that you have no idea how to drive a race car. In tests by a german auto magazine, the M3 achieved a higher level of grip than the Porsche 911. 'nuff said.

 

[Pcar928fan]

The Subaru is as good or better then the luxury brands in: horsepower, torque, maneuverability, traction, braking. (Look at real world performance results not just the specs)

Allen, I guess you are looking solely at the WRX and WRX STi, because the regular line of Subies are not going to hold a candle to the luxury brands that were listed in an earlier post...in the way of performance...uless they have all kinds of great new cars that I have just somehow missed while reading, AutoWeek, Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc. I have subscriptions to all of them and have not noted anything from Subaru other than the rally cars on the performance front... YMMV.

I think they probably do 4wd better than most other car makers, that was not listed... My wife LOVED her Subaru wagon she had back in college!

 

[Diamonds]

Is the M3 rear wheel drive?

Because if it is-all you really told us is that you can go through a set of tires in 5 minutes!lol

Dominick

ps-remember that just because your wheels are spinning does not mean that you are creating lateral acceleration.

I went through tires on my M3 every 10k miles tops. Oh yeah the wheels were staggered so I could not rotate them. Oh the tires were only like $850 a piece.

 

[akm3]

Allen, I guess you are looking solely at the WRX and WRX STi, because the regular line of Subies are not going to hold a candle to the luxury brands that were listed in an earlier post...in the way of performance...uless they have all kinds of great new cars that I have just somehow missed while reading, AutoWeek, Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc. I have subscriptions to all of them and have not noted anything from Subaru other than the rally cars on the performance front... YMMV.

I think they probably do 4wd better than most other car makers, that was not listed... My wife LOVED her Subaru wagon she had back in college!

I know I won't win converts here, but you must have missed many high performance Subaru cars.

Check out the Forester XT, the Outback XT, the Legacy GT (especially the Spec.B) in addition to the WRX and STi.

The Spec.B in particular is an excellent, further upscale, value priced drivers car. 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, 6 speed manual transmission, excellent turbocharged engine (different tune of same engine in the STi), excellent bilstein suspension (Thats the "B" in Spec.B) all for half of the price of the luxo-ego-barges.

With our Martin Logan's, we know the Summit is the best. But there are a lot of people who buy Vantages and Vistas and Clarities because they get 80-90% of the goods for 50% or less of the cost. The value Subaru represents is one of those scenarios unless you are a buyer who is interested in the STATUS of the cars in which case Subaru holds zero status (actually your friends will make fun of you for buying a Subaru)

And again, the fact you weren't aware of these high performance models in Subaru's lineup (other then the WRX and STi) is testament to Subaru's awful marketing.

-Allen