OK! Esoteric K1 is the winner. ==• now we need to move to the speaker!!!!!}{[]>

[Gordon Gray]

This is one area where most folks have no idea regarding the cost / benefit ratio.

A shame really.

No desire for the "stack". Too many flippin boxes.

 

[Bernard]

Bernard,

Would need to be done at the dCS factory. Good news is that it's located in the UK, which is where the seller is.

If I pursue, these are some of the details that need to be addressed.

Gordon

Gordon, I don't know about dCS, but some manufacturers flat out refuse to do conversions, and say so on their websites. Something to do with taking business away from local dealers, I think.

 

[jtwrace]

I'll say it again. At $20k you should really be looking at the TAD CR1 or E1. Nothing else comes close IMO. Science doesn't lie!

 

[Joey_V]

I'll say it again. At $20k you should really be looking at the TAD CR1 or E1. Nothing else comes close IMO. Science doesn't lie!

Can't find a nearby TAD dealer.... this is so frustrating.

Anyway, found a CR1 on audiogon - 19,999$. The R1 is $49,999. Used.

Not going to swing the R1. How is the CR1?

 

[GaryG]

I'm reasonably familiar with the TAD speaker line. I first heard the TAD Reference ones at January 2003 CES and I have spent about 2 hours with Andrew Jones each year since then. He is very accommodating. On top of this I have owned for seven years the trickle down Pioneer S-1EX's with the accompanying center and rears for a 5.1 system. The S-1EX's have the beryllium tweeters but they uses less expensive and easier to work with magnesium for the mids. On my first visit the reference ones were about six month from being released and the price was $45,000. I just took a look back at Kal Rubinson's original review of the Reference Ones and I got a good chuckle because he made the statement that the originals were made out of plywood. In my 2003 visit Andrew passed around a beautifully cut approx. half inch thick laminated piece of birch wood. I guess you could call it plywood. They had serious problems in production with the birch and they switched to a composite. Just as an aside my favorite year at CES Andrew brought 5 Reference ones each powered by VTL Siegfried's for a 5.0 demo. It was a real WOW. In their current price category ($80,000) remain one of my favorites.

The TAD Evolution one's are very good at $30,000 and certainly worth consideration. The CR1's have the same signature TAD sound and I like it a lot however at their price point I feel the 32 dB bottom end requires a sub. Of course at the $20K "Gon" price hummm, maybe.

Gary

 

[Joey_V]

Found a guy with TAD Ref 1 locally.. will go listen.

 

[sb6]

Found a guy with TAD Ref 1 locally.. will go listen.

You beat me to the punch on the TADs, that would be my choice. Best sound of CES 2013 around it's price point for me - TAD E1s. I have heard Rockport Aviors and Arrakis, great sounding but a bit dry and impersonal if you will. I believe careful matching and high quality electronics is crucial to get them to sing.

Gordon - as for a good 1 box player, you might want to consider the Esoteric K-03 rated favorably compared to the Puccini. Also, from what I understand DCS is known to not be the most reliable gear. I have heard the Puccini (Steve T. has more times than me) and I have an Esoteric K-03, but it's tough to compare, totally different systems and I heard the Puccini years ago. However, if I had to sum it up the main contrasts from what I recall - Puccini is ultra detailed, but a bit light in overall body and heft, Esoteric has much more body/heft but maybe a bit less "airy". Both are world class players and you couldn't go wrong with either. A good problem to have. Good luck in your search!

 

[Joey_V]

You beat me to the punch on the TADs, that would be my choice. Best sound of CES 2013 around it's price point for me - TAD E1s. I have heard Rockport Aviors and Arrakis, great sounding but a bit dry and impersonal if you will. I believe careful matching and high quality electronics is crucial to get them to sing.

Gordon - as for a good 1 box player, you might want to consider the Esoteric K-03 rated favorably compared to the Puccini. Also, from what I understand DCS is known to not be the most reliable gear. I have heard the Puccini (Steve T. has more times than me) and I have an Esoteric K-03, but it's tough to compare, totally different systems and I heard the Puccini years ago. However, if I had to sum it up the main contrasts from what I recall - Puccini is ultra detailed, but a bit light in overall body and heft, Esoteric has much more body/heft but maybe a bit less "airy". Both are world class players and you couldn't go wrong with either. A good problem to have. Good luck in your search!

K03... how does it compare to the K01? I have been waiting for a K01 to pop up on audiogon for the kill.. but I am seeing this K03 on it for 5995. Vs the 10K that it would take to snatch the K01.

Does the K03 have sufficient image density and does it also have all those little settings (upsampling, etc) that you can set on the K01?

 

[bonzo]

And IMO stereophiles (which rightly autocorrects to stereotypes) need a paradigm shift. Instead of debating whether a k01 is better than a k03 than a dcs, one should look at whether these differences will be minor compared to a different approach using a Datasat or trinnov. Else one will forever be stuck on this path of upgrades. If one likes the esoteric family, a k01 should be better than a k03, if one doesn't like the esoteric sound it won't.

Before putting in what one considers a SOTA system but which in reality is an upgrade along the same path, it might be worthwhile to check different styles of presentation like Jonfo's and Garyg's. It might shock one in an entirely different direction.

 

[sb6]

K03... how does it compare to the K01? I have been waiting for a K01 to pop up on audiogon for the kill.. but I am seeing this K03 on it for 5995. Vs the 10K that it would take to snatch the K01.

Does the K03 have sufficient image density and does it also have all those little settings (upsampling, etc) that you can set on the K01?

I have never heard the K01, but from what I read, it's a significant step up. 2x the # of DAC chips/channel, 4 for the K-03 and 8 for the K-01. Whether it's worth 10K more new, I'm not sure but considering it's about $4K more used, I would say go for it if it's in your budget.

Also, I'm 95% sure that the K-01 and K-03 have an identical feature set (filters, upsample, inputs, volume, etc) since the manual is the same for both units and I did not see any feature call-outs for K-01 only.

As for sound, I have owned the D-07, the D-05 (and P-05) and now the K-03. While the K-03 is still not 100% broken in, the biggest benefits I hear with the K-03 is improved clarity of highs (symbols, lip smacking, snare drum whack, etc), an increase in air around instruments creating more of a 3d effect, tighter and more articulate bass and my favorite - much improved PRAT. The first thing I noticed, even w/o break-in was how the music flowed effortlessly. For a moment, I literally thought some of my well known tracks sounded slower when I realized that was not the case, it's just that much better at PRAT. If the K-01 does PRAT better than the K-03, for me that alone is worth it. It sounds more, dare I say it - "analog". Of course, an external clock may do the same but probably costs more than the upgrade to a K-01. So, long story short, yes, the image density, placement, and size (can be wall-to wall w/the right recording) is outstanding IMO. K-01 would be on my short list if I had the extra $.

 

[Joey_V]

And thus, K01 it shall remain.

I have never heard the K01, but from what I read, it's a significant step up. 2x the # of DAC chips/channel, 4 for the K-03 and 8 for the K-01. Whether it's worth 10K more new, I'm not sure but considering it's about $4K more used, I would say go for it if it's in your budget.

Also, I'm 95% sure that the K-01 and K-03 have an identical feature set (filters, upsample, inputs, volume, etc) since the manual is the same for both units and I did not see any feature call-outs for K-01 only.

As for sound, I have owned the D-07, the D-05 (and P-05) and now the K-03. While the K-03 is still not 100% broken in, the biggest benefits I hear with the K-03 is improved clarity of highs (symbols, lip smacking, snare drum whack, etc), an increase in air around instruments creating more of a 3d effect, tighter and more articulate bass and my favorite - much improved PRAT. The first thing I noticed, even w/o break-in was how the music flowed effortlessly. For a moment, I literally thought some of my well known tracks sounded slower when I realized that was not the case, it's just that much better at PRAT. If the K-01 does PRAT better than the K-03, for me that alone is worth it. It sounds more, dare I say it - "analog". Of course, an external clock may do the same but probably costs more than the upgrade to a K-01. So, long story short, yes, the image density, placement, and size (can be wall-to wall w/the right recording) is outstanding IMO. K-01 would be on my short list if I had the extra $.

 

[Joey_V]

Thanks for the suggestions guys:

I have an audition this friday for the TAD Reference 1 - supposed to be the bee's knees from all the reviews I've read. Rather large following on audioaficionado as well.

I have also an audition to Focal Scala V2 at an owner's house since the AD does not have it on the floor.

I was thinking of catching a flight to PHX Arizona to go to LMC and audition some gear at that rather large AD.... anyone from MLO in PHX who would like to meet up?

 

[timm]

Thanks for the suggestions guys:

I have an audition this friday for the TAD Reference 1 - supposed to be the bee's knees from all the reviews I've read. Rather large following on audioaficionado as well.

I have also an audition to Focal Scala V2 at an owner's house since the AD does not have it on the floor.

I was thinking of catching a flight to PHX Arizona to go to LMC and audition some gear at that rather large AD.... anyone from MLO in PHX who would like to meet up?

Ooh. This is exciting!! . How much are the ref 1s ?

 

[Bernard]

Joey, currently on Hifishark.com there are a couple of TAD Ref 1s, and a lot of 802s.

 

[sb6]

Thanks for the suggestions guys:

I have an audition this friday for the TAD Reference 1 - supposed to be the bee's knees from all the reviews I've read. Rather large following on audioaficionado as well.

I have also an audition to Focal Scala V2 at an owner's house since the AD does not have it on the floor.

I was thinking of catching a flight to PHX Arizona to go to LMC and audition some gear at that rather large AD.... anyone from MLO in PHX who would like to meet up?

Not to in any way take away from the TADs (my dream speaker if I could afford them), but in the same price bracket are the Vandersteen 7s, which were absolutely outstanding. Price no object one of the if not The best at RMAF last year for me. Just a suggestion....

 

[Joey_V]

Ooh. This is exciting!! . How much are the ref 1s ?

A lot. Top of the price range for me. Barely got wife approval. May need to sell a watch.

Joey, currently on Hifishark.com there are a couple of TAD Ref 1s, and a lot of 802s.

Gotcha Bernard!

Not to in any way take away from the TADs (my dream speaker if I could afford them), but in the same price bracket are the Vandersteen 7s, which were absolutely outstanding. Price no object one of the if not The best at RMAF last year for me. Just a suggestion....

Funny that you mention Vandersteen. Heard the vandersteen 5a carbon tonight and met and talked and shook hands with Richard Vandersteen himself. Talked to him about things that I didn't understand either and learned a lot about building a speaker.

 

[sb6]

A lot. Top of the price range for me. Barely got wife approval. May need to sell a watch.



Gotcha Bernard!



Funny that you mention Vandersteen. Heard the vandersteen 5a carbon tonight and met and talked and shook hands with Richard Vandersteen himself. Talked to him about things that I didn't understand either and learned a lot about building a speaker.

When I was looking for speakers last year, the Vandersteen 5A carbon and TAD E1s were the 2 top contenders, with the Usher BE20 coming in 3rd. Last year at RMAF, the 5As did not float my boat (I think it was more of a room setup and/or system synergy issue). However, the 7s were a whole world better, primarily in the mids and highs. Guess what I'm saying is - I would not judge the 7 based on the 5a carbon, even though I'm sure the 5as are great with the right gear and room. My 2.5 cents...

 

[bonzo]

Were both set up for that particular room? With the vandys there are a lot of analog tuning controls to set it up for the room.

 

[Joey_V]

When I was looking for speakers last year, the Vandersteen 5A carbon and TAD E1s were the 2 top contenders, with the Usher BE20 coming in 3rd. Last year at RMAF, the 5As did not float my boat (I think it was more of a room setup and/or system synergy issue). However, the 7s were a whole world better, primarily in the mids and highs. Guess what I'm saying is - I would not judge the 7 based on the 5a carbon, even though I'm sure the 5as are great with the right gear and room. My 2.5 cents...

Problem with the 7 is that it might be just a little above my budget. Not really keen on paying $65K for a pair. It's beginning to get out of hand.

They say 5A Carbon is about 1/2 between 5 and 7.

 

[bonzo]

Problem with the 7 is that it might be just a little above my budget. Not really keen on paying $65K for a pair. It's beginning to get out of hand.

They say 5A Carbon is about 1/2 between 5 and 7.

These guys seem to think carbon is sweet spot http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?55-Vandersteen-Model-7&p=275178&viewfull=1#post275178

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?55-Vandersteen-Model-7&p=275197&viewfull=1#post275197

What did you think of the sound of the Vandys and the TADs