New member with newfound love of ML

[HyperM3]

Just wanted to say hello to all and get some feedback or maybe insight.

After looking through the members gallery I feel like the one who got invited to the ****tail party but came underdressed because he failed to read the part about "Black Tie Only".

Anyway, now that I got that off my chest. I recently moved into my first house and one of the necessities when hunting was ample room for my home theater. Luckily I have a loft area that had perfect dimensions. I recently capped off my many year development of building a home theater with a screen and projector.

Long story short, Ive been a DefTech fan forever. I swore by them and even pushed them harder than anything else when Ive been selling(bet you can guess where I work).

Yesterday, I finally had professional demonstrations of the Purities and I was taken to another dimension. What I had previously disliked about ML's(focused dispersion) was now something I think I needed.

My loft area is 18' x 15' with 3 walls. My speakers consist of BP10's and CLR3000 up front, BP2X in the rear with a SC Reference backing it up.

I was thinking of replacing the BP10's with 7001's and moving them to the rear. However, after experiencing the Logans, Im thinking about replacing my whole system entirely.

Im looking at Purities and Matinee up front with Vignettes in the rear and an Abyss pushing the bottom.

Am I silly to replace the whole system? Am I silly to replace anything that I have now(Ive had my BP10's 11 yrs now)? How much better could it really sound?

Oh and for the record(no pun intended) I dont listen to music at all. This is strictly an HT setup 100%.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any opinions.

PS-I can post pics of what Im working with now if that helps

 

[MiTT]

HyperM3,

First off...:welcome:

So here's my take on your post, but understand that I'm much more of a music guy than an H.T. guy. First off yes, post pictures. After you've been here a while you'll realize we're a buch of photo whores. Second, regarding purchasing a whole new system centered around Martin Logans - hey, I'm here to tell you that there are a lot of us here that will be happy to help you spend your money, and yes, count on us recommending Martin Logans all around for your new home theater.

So I'm thinking keep those Purities in the picture and someday you'll end up moving them to rears because you will have upgraded to Spires. It won't just be the Martin Logans sucking up your disposable income though. You'll start to hear every detail in a way you never have before, enough so that you'll start to experiment with different electronics out of "curiosity", but low and behold you'll easily hear differences that you won't be able to live without. It's kind of like crack I suppose. You start off with just a little taste, what harm could it do right? Why not try a little more. Good thing you work where you do. If you change jobs you'll need to find a new "dealer".

You'll sneak away on your lunch hours and down to the office at night to catch up on this forum - your support network, but you still won't get enough. You'll start having "stat dreams", don't worry it's normal, nothing to be embarassed about. If anybody here tells you they haven't done it they're either new to these parts or lying. Don't worry, it won't make you go blind.

You'll look for opportunities to say "Martin Logan" in casual conversation at parties or maybe even hanging out with others in front of the church on Sunday after services. You'll get looks from people like you're some kind of nut job, but hey, they just don't understand.

Someday you'll take the ultimate step to the dark side and invite a friend or family member over for a "listen". You'll play something they haven't heard before and feel all giddy inside when they experience their first goosebump moment. You'll know then that you turned them, brought them into the fold, rocked their world.

Yeah, you just hang in there, it's all good...


Oh, and you may not be a music guy now, but just hang out here for awhile. When you're feeling a little more comfortable go check out something in the Recommended Recordings section. Maybe check out a little thread we got over in the "Off Topic Audio" forum called "Sunday Morning Music". It's ok, nothing to be scared of, fear no art, just relax, you won't feel a thing....

 

[HyperM3]

HyperM3,

First off...:welcome:

So here's my take on your post, but understand that I'm much more of a music guy than an H.T. guy. First off yes, post pictures. After you've been here a while you'll realize we're a buch of photo whores. Second, regarding purchasing a whole new system centered around Martin Logans - hey, I'm here to tell you that there are a lot of us here that will be happy to help you spend your money, and yes, count on us recommending Martin Logans all around for your new home theater.

So I'm thinking keep those Purities in the picture and someday you'll end up moving them to rears because you will have upgraded to Spires. It won't just be the Martin Logans sucking up your disposable income though. You'll start to hear every detail in a way you never have before, enough so that you'll start to experiment with different electronics out of "curiosity", but low and behold you'll easily hear differences that you won't be able to live without. It's kind of like crack I suppose. You start off with just a little taste, what harm could it do right? Why not try a little more. Good thing you work where you do. If you change jobs you'll need to find a new "dealer".

You'll sneak away on your lunch hours and down to the office at night to catch up on this forum - your support network, but you still won't get enough. You'll start having "stat dreams", don't worry it's normal, nothing to be embarassed about. If anybody here tells you they haven't done it they're either new to these parts or lying. Don't worry, it won't make you go blind.

You'll look for opportunities to say "Martin Logan" in casual conversation at parties or maybe even hanging out with others in front of the church on Sunday after services. You'll get looks from people like you're some kind of nut job, but hey, they just don't understand.

Someday you'll take the ultimate step to the dark side and invite a friend or family member over for a "listen". You'll play something they haven't heard before and feel all giddy inside when they experience their first goosebump moment. You'll know then that you turned them, brought them into the fold, rocked their world.

Yeah, you just hang in there, it's all good...


Oh, and you may not be a music guy now, but just hang out here for awhile. When you're feeling a little more comfortable go check out something in the Recommended Recordings section. Maybe check out a little thread we got over in the "Off Topic Audio" forum called "Sunday Morning Music". It's ok, nothing to be scared of, fear no art, just relax, you won't feel a thing....

Thanks for the quick, patient and full response. Honestly, I wont fall prey to the music thing. I love going to concerts and I listen to a ton of music in the car. At home however I just dont have the time.

Heres pics of my setup:

And if it makes any difference, Im running a 3808 through a monster 2500 power center with a Samsung 1500BR player, Oppo 981 player and Panny AE2000 Projector with 92" Stewart screen.

 

[TomDac]

welcome Hyper... does the "M3" in your name refer to a car made in Germany by chance??

 

[C.A.P]

Welcome Hyper. Man Mitt was spot on . Great post Tim! Martin Logan people are as dedicated as it gets in audio. Its a stat thing !

 

[VanDaRo]

OK, OK... Everyone here loves the way that their Martin Logans sound. Including me. But as a new member, DO check out the "Member's Systems" section and check out some of the righteous HT setups that some here have. I think it will clarify the second most important aspect of Martin Logan ownership -- The fantastic way they look in a dedicated room. Not that there is nothing wrong with your DefTechs -- I'm sure they sound good and make you happy. But... Logan's are a step up in both departments.

When you get your ML system all set up and tweaked to the nines, you'll truly enjoy the look and feel of these products as well. My 6 foot tall Logans are a conversation piece for all visitors to my home. The way they fill the room with music, convey feeling and energize listeners is just the icing on the cake. When an old friend drops buy and your system's look and sound causes his or her jaw to drop, you'll know you made the right choice.

Go for it !!

~VDR

 

[DrJRapp]

Am I silly to replace the whole system? Am I silly to replace anything that I have now(Ive had my BP10's 11 yrs now)? How much better could it really sound?

Silly?.... well hardly. No more silly than preferring to eat steak instead of hamburger.

You can always take them home and try them. Based on where you work that should be easy. I'll guarantee that any thoughts of "sillyness" will quickly disappear.

Welcome to our world!

 

[Len44]

Silly?.... well hardly. No more silly than preferring to eat steak instead of hamburger.

You can always take them home and try them. Based on where you work that should be easy. I'll guarantee that any thoughts of "sillyness" will quickly disappear.

Welcome to our world!

What he Said!:rocker::music:

 

[twich54]

I wont fall prey to the music thing. I love going to concerts and I listen to a ton of music in the car. At home however I just dont have the time.

Hyper, Welcome !

Interesting take on music, if not confusing........... it's fair to assume you would rather watch movies with your spare time, that's fine ....to each his own ! But for HT only duties one need not spend Logan $$$ to get superior HT audio.

But I do agree with Tim in that with Logan gear you may learn in time to appreciate music better in a home enviroment, God knows it can never be appreciated in a car !

 

[HyperM3]

welcome Hyper... does the "M3" in your name refer to a car made in Germany by chance??

Why yes, it does.

Hyper, Welcome !

Interesting take on music, if not confusing........... it's fair to assume you would rather watch movies with your spare time, that's fine ....to each his own ! But for HT only duties one need not spend Logan $$$ to get superior HT audio.

But I do agree with Tim in that with Logan gear you may learn in time to appreciate music better in a home enviroment, God knows it can never be appreciated in a car !

Thank you all for your warm welcomes. Yes, I know Im very strange. I work in a home theater department and yet I admit that I dont listen to music at home. Thats because I am hardly home much and when I am Im either catching up on all the TV Ive DVR'd or watching a movie(or maybe Im lying and I spend most of it on forums).

That being said, I really wouldn't want Logans for music and that's because of the dispersion. I cant sit in one spot when listening to music, I do however for movies. Thats why I want speakers for only HT.

I do LOVE the look of them and think they would bring that added detail to my HT setup. I think Ill order up a system on Friday.

 

[JonFo]

OK, I’ll be the contrarian here.

First, I love ML’s (no doubt about that from the guy whose whole Room was designed around them and themed after the MartinLogan tech and look).

But from your descriptions and preferences, and the pics of your room, I’d seriously consider a different order in which to spend coin.

What I’m suggesting will increase your enjoyment of movies by orders of magnitude over just swapping speakers in the short term.

My recommendations, in order of execution:

- Deal with the room acoustics, keep existing speakers and contact Ethan at www.realtraps.com
- Upgrade the receiver to a model that includes Audyssey MultEQ XT (Denon’s are recommended)
- Then consider speakers and amps.

Dealing with room acoustics has to be the #1 priority, as it makes huge, huge differences in the resulting sound.
You will enjoy movies much more in well treated room, and with the benefits of Audyssey layered on top, including DynamicEQ, you’ll find it satisfactory at all volumes.

Once the room is done, then new speakers and electronics can be brought in and integrated with a much better chance of you actually perceiving the improvements across the board.


My analogy is that most rooms are like a rutted dirt-road, it doesn’t matter if you drive a Subaru or a Mercedes, you can only go so fast.
But pave the road, and a Lamborgini will be noticeably quicker. But put that same Lambo on a dirt road, and the Subaru could beat it.

So it’s all about context. And in Audio, the room dominates.

 

[HyperM3]

OK, I’ll be the contrarian here.

First, I love ML’s (no doubt about that from the guy whose whole Room was designed around them and themed after the MartinLogan tech and look).

But from your descriptions and preferences, and the pics of your room, I’d seriously consider a different order in which to spend coin.

What I’m suggesting will increase your enjoyment of movies by orders of magnitude over just swapping speakers in the short term.

My recommendations, in order of execution:

- Deal with the room acoustics, keep existing speakers and contact Ethan at www.realtraps.com
- Upgrade the receiver to a model that includes Audyssey MultEQ XT (Denon’s are recommended)
- Then consider speakers and amps.

Thanks for your opinion, thats also what Ive been looking for. Thanks also for the headsup on realtraps. I was researching that but didnt know where to start.

As far as the receiver, I have a Denon 3808 with the Audyssey. In terms of my speakers, while Im sure they sound great and probably dont need to be changed, I like change. I also like detail, which is one thing I feel like I might be lacking compared to the Logans.

EDIT: Holy cow!!! Just took a look at your system(bowing "Im not worthy").

 

[Horchem1972]

Def Tech vs Logans

I personally would keep what you have,by your description of need. I have heard the same system you have and was very impressed for driver speakers.I do not think you will greatly enhance your movies by spending the extra money.The Def Tech systems are extremely good for theater and multi-channel music listening.I personally prefer the sound of Martin Logans but that is my opinion.Trust your ears at what is best for you.Good luck.

 

[HyperM3]

I personally would keep what you have,by your description of need. I have heard the same system you have and was very impressed for driver speakers.I do not think you will greatly enhance your movies by spending the extra money.The Def Tech systems are extremely good for theater and multi-channel music listening.I personally prefer the sound of Martin Logans but that is my opinion.Trust your ears at what is best for you.Good luck.

Well, if I said that the change over to ML's would cost me nothing, would that make a difference? Or would you still keep the same system I have now?

Also, my biggest issue is this:

Thats probably my biggest reason for wanting the ML's for controlled dispersion. Im losing a lot of sound out here from the DefTechs Im sure.

 

[Horchem1972]

Def Tech vs Logans

If money is not an issue,then go with the Logans.I must first admit that I prefer the sound of the older Logans versus the newer models.You do have to remember that the Purity is still a dipole speaker and will eminate sound from the front and back.Short of a conventional box speaker,the open wall will be an issue.I believe the biggest differance will not be with movies but with music.Good luck.

 

[HyperM3]

If money is not an issue,then go with the Logans.I must first admit that I prefer the sound of the older Logans versus the newer models.You do have to remember that the Purity is still a dipole speaker and will eminate sound from the front and back.Short of a conventional box speaker,the open wall will be an issue.I believe the biggest differance will not be with movies but with music.Good luck.

I guess Im just itching for an upgrade. What people need to understand is that while I would love to go to some of the higher end models, the Purity is the highest end model Im allowed to get. This is because of the limit of my purchasing ability through where I work. Again, I do not want to get myself banned or in trouble but I can either upgrade my DefTechs or replace them with ML's very reasonably.

 

[HyperM3]

My recommendations, in order of execution:

- Deal with the room acoustics, keep existing speakers and contact Ethan at www.realtraps.com

Emailed Ethan and got a response within 15 minutes, then another full response in 2 hours. WOW that's customer service. Thanks for the headsup!!!

 

[schnauzer/lover]

I own Definitive, with the 7001s as my fronts. Do not make the mistake I almost did, that is thinking I must sell my Defs to get other speakers. What I have now is surround sound using my Defs 5.1, and serious music listening using my Martins in analog 2.1. So all my components have both digital and analog coming out of them. You should see the wiring. Me personally would rather listen to HDTV with the Defs, but for music my main baby the ML rule!

 

[RichTeer]

Emailed Ethan and got a response within 15 minutes, then another full response in 2 hours. WOW that's customer service. Thanks for the headsup!!!

Allow me to add my voice to the recommendations for RealTraps (many thanks to Ken (aka RUR) for bringing them to my attention!). They don't have any of my cash yet, but they will. I have other priorities for the time being, but when the time comes to add room treatments, RealTraps is where I'll be spending my cash.