Need input regarding upgrade

[Shoe]

Ok guys I need to tap into ML universe of sound wisdom. Should I take a-vantage (pun) in upgrading too a new pair of Summits for half the price (being discontinued) replacing the Vantages? Let me explain my set up'
I have a dedicated room that is heavily treated with over 20 bass traps, first and second reflection points with diffusers on the back wall and a combination of diffusion and absorption on the front wall. The room size is 13x29. I have the speakers set up on the short wall and the equipment rack on the side wall. I have two dedicated AC lines with conditioning. I am running a CJ preamp (LS17) and two solid state amps running in a bi-amp configuration. The CJ MF 2500 is on the panels a MF 80 is hook up too a Vlelodyne SMs-1 crossed over at 80 hrtz on the Vantage woofers. Two Depth i are placed just behind the speakers near the corners. (the Vantages are 5 feet from the front wall and 18 inches from the side walls) The two subs are cross over at 54 hrtz. With a little EQ I have a relative flat response from 20 too 200, plus and minus 1 db. The bass is fantastic which makes everything else from the mid range to the highs do what ML do so well.

Now that you know about my set up, Those of you who own the summits do you think it would be worth it to upgrade? What am I missing with my current set up that I would gain by getting the summits? Your impute would be greatly appreciated. Sam

 

[tonepub]

The Vantages have powered woofers, why would you use a separate amp for them?

If you have the bass dialed in that well, what does your current system not do that you would like it to?

 

[User211]

The Vantages have powered woofers, why would you use a separate amp for them?

Did he say he was?

Former Vantage owner's have posted here saying the bigger panel is a big sonic advantage when going to Spires/Summits. That's my experience too. Also, there's a lower x-over point with the bass driver, which improves things as well.

 

[DTB300]

Did he say he was?

I think so...

"The CJ MF 2500 is on the panels a MF 80 is hook up too a Vlelodyne SMs-1 crossed over at 80 hrtz on the Vantage woofers."

For the money, I always thought the Vantages were a better buy than the Summits, as the extra money could be used for other components and music in your setup. The only advantage I can see for Summits is if you have a larger room and the Vantage are just not cutting it for sound levels. Otherwise use the money on better amplification, subs, room treatments, music.

 

[User211]

Shoe, can you explain what's going on with that sub arrangement in more detail? Aren't you just using the Velodyne to set the x-over point, but still using the Vantage internal amps? And the Velodyne sub is driven by the MF 80? Just guessing...

 

[David Matz]

I am also a bit unclear about your setup. Nevertheless, having heard both Vantages and Summits with similar equipment, the Summits do have a better midrange and much better bass (in a well treated room, which sounds like what you have).

To me the tradeoff is: get a better amp or the Summit?

You can probably sell the amp you are using on the woofers - does it add value?

If you get the Summits, you may not need both subs. You can sell the sub and the second amp. Then get an awesome (more expensive) amp, and you will have the best of both worlds.

PS. How was the event in Seattle? If you could post the highlights it would be great. Thanks.

 

[Shoe]

The reason why I am using a separate amp for the power woofers on the Vantages is to keep the SMS-1 out of the loop on the panels. I do not want too introduce another device between the amp powering the panels. Therefore the SMS=1 is only doing it's thing on the Vantage woofers and the two subs. which is why I am able to achieve a seamless integration in the bass region. So the connection looks like this; preamp out into the SMS-1 then out ,crossover at 80 hrtz into the MF 80 connected by separate speaker wire to the Vantage woofer terminals. The crossover, slopes, phase and EQ is all provided by the SMS-1. Defeating the crossover subs network by connecting too the LF input. Once I found the right adjustment through the SMS-1, I then do the fine adjustment on the subs in setting there phase, volume, and the 35 hrtz; and the adjustment on the Vantages. Once this task is completed (which takes hours, but worth it) I then I apply EQ for the flattest bass response in the room. I am a strong believer in room treatment and if necessary some kind of digital room correction. For my system it has work very well; plus I have the peace of mind that the panels are not being compromise in any way.

If I were to get the Summits I would need to sell the Depths to contribute towards the new purchase. Which means I would not be using the SMS-1, instead relying on the the Summits controls to achieve the best bass response. So that is where I am at. Thanks guys for your thoughts and questions, Sam

 

[Brad225]

Shoe, have you heard Summits? If so how did you think they compared to the Vantages and what is lacking? If not that would be the place to start.
What are you using for a music source? That may be the place to spend your money.
After hearing Craig's Aeon's driven by his Nemo's and Wadia and the same Aeon's at Rampage's (George) driven by his Pass Lab equipment I think most or us change our ML's before we ever really hear what they can offer. Those Aeons sounded amazing. I never would have guessed you could get that much great sound out a smaller ML.
I had SL3's before I purchased CLS's. I drove them with what I considered a pretty good SS amp but I don't think I ever really heard what they could do. I love the sound of by CLS's but looking back I should have changed my amplification and source before changing speakers. I am going to be taking the CLS's out of service to work on the frames and will be using the SL3's and I am curious how much different they sound then what I remember now that I have what I consider better equipment.
Is there something you don't like about your system?
Try to demo different combinations of equipment before you change speakers. Just my opinion.

 

[Shoe]

Brad thanks for your post. I am very happy with my current set up. I listen on average 2 hours a day and never experience listener fatigue. I also have a great experience that holds my undivided attention. My source is a Naim CDX with the external XPS. I think it's one of the best CD player out there. My analogue is a Music Hall 7. I listen to 70% digital and the rest records.

I have only listen to the Summits at a showroom, no direct comparison. My primary reason in getting the summits would be if it would be a sufficient upgrade;at a near 50% discount.

 

[Craig]

I agree with Brad's point that few us ML owners ever reach the full sonic potential of our speakers before upgrading the speaker. My experience has been that my system often sounded better with nearly each component upgrade or room acoustic improvement. This tells me that the speaker wasn't the weakest link in the chain.

Although, an upgrade of the speaker is an easy way to upgrade the sound but may there may be more cost effective upgrades to be had in other areas.

 

[robertawillisjr]

I am glad that you are happy with your system. My only caution is simplify if possible. You might be pleasantly surprised by how much better your system will sound. Then again not.

 

[Shoe]

Robert, what do you mean by "simplify"?

 

[robertawillisjr]

Robert, what do you mean by "simplify"?

Well many times we start adding pieces to our rigs and then have to adjust things to get the sound right. I was like that and before I knew it I had four Aragon amps connected to my Quests, a powered sub and an equalizer to get all of the pieces to interact properly. Well sometimes the rig sounded great, but for the most part, I had to constantly tinker with things. Then I went to multichannel (Cinema and Stylos) and I found myself tinkering even more.

Finally, I tore it apart and now just have the Quests, one power amp, one preamp and a player. I miss the sub from time to time but this is the purest and consistently best sounding configuration (except when I had a pair of CLS').

I don't mean to say that better components won't sound better. I've auditioned Prodigy, B&W and other electronics that sounded better, but were not in the budget. I am saying that often simpler is better. It is often difficutl to get a complex system adjusted properly and if the components aren't sonically matched (as ML does with each pair of speakers), good luck!

 

[Shoe]

Well said Robert, I find at times the struggle between being a music enthusiast and being a certain type of an audiophile;who is rarely satisfied with the sound and always wondering if there is something he's missing. Keeping the two in balance is easier said then done in pursuing the "absolute sound" Thanks for keeping me grounded.