Monolith
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Satch
Well-known member
Why do I here the theme from 2001 Space Odyssey when I look at those? 
MotorToad
Well-known member
You want them because they're cool as hell!
I have to say, though, I've always been kind of bugged about it being a pair of Monoliths!
I have to say, though, I've always been kind of bugged about it being a pair of Monoliths!
Horchem1972
Well-known member
You want them because they look and sound excellant
I am bias of course,because I own a pair of Monolith II's.The soundstage is enormous with pinpoint imaging.You have to hear and see them to appreciate the looks.I used to own the original CLS speakers and always croossed them over at 100hz.These made sense because the panels are crossed over at 100hz.They have the ability to play extremely loud or low and bring out subtle details.I mated them with a Logos and love them for home theater.Just my opinion.:music:
I am bias of course,because I own a pair of Monolith II's.The soundstage is enormous with pinpoint imaging.You have to hear and see them to appreciate the looks.I used to own the original CLS speakers and always croossed them over at 100hz.These made sense because the panels are crossed over at 100hz.They have the ability to play extremely loud or low and bring out subtle details.I mated them with a Logos and love them for home theater.Just my opinion.:music:
Cherian
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The Monoliths are beautiful speakers!! In my opinion the Monoliths are what audiophile speakers should look like. Imposing, awe inspiring, finicky, with a bit of what the hell. Most everyone that has seen my Monoliths look at it with wonderment. It moves one without even a note coming out of it. It is epic. I love my Monoliths! With the correct amplification and a bit of tuning it sounds fantastic. If you can find a pair in good shape I say get it.
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kwr
Well-known member
...why do i want a pair of these?
..... because they are the coolest speaker ML has ever made. They have a presence without even firing them up.
Completely objective assesment of course.
Kevin
amey01
Well-known member
Because they're basically a pair of CLS with built in woofers!
..........or another way
the ORIGINAL mini-statement.
..........or another way
the ORIGINAL mini-statement.
Well, I’m obviously biased, as I have a pair
Yes, they are physically imposing and awesome to have as part of a dedicated room.
When well integrated into the room, these things are incredible.
However, the original passive crossover is sub-par. The Exos active is much better.
Therefore passive crossover users should consider upgrading to active crossovers (with EQ).
The woofer is now long in the tooth, and updating them is a nice tweak.
Also, shifting the x-over up a bit to 315Hz (assuming the woofer has been updated to handle it) and using very steep slopes really opens up the panel even more, and the system has much improved mid-bass response.
One of the excellent things about a Monolith is it is indeed so tweakable, partially because the crossover is externalized, partially because it is pretty much a CLS with a woofer.
I don't know that it quite qualifies as a mini-statement, it would have required much better mid-bass performance to achieve that status.
However, nothing short of a CLX will get me to replace these.
Yes, they are physically imposing and awesome to have as part of a dedicated room.
When well integrated into the room, these things are incredible.
However, the original passive crossover is sub-par. The Exos active is much better.
Therefore passive crossover users should consider upgrading to active crossovers (with EQ).
The woofer is now long in the tooth, and updating them is a nice tweak.
Also, shifting the x-over up a bit to 315Hz (assuming the woofer has been updated to handle it) and using very steep slopes really opens up the panel even more, and the system has much improved mid-bass response.
One of the excellent things about a Monolith is it is indeed so tweakable, partially because the crossover is externalized, partially because it is pretty much a CLS with a woofer.
I don't know that it quite qualifies as a mini-statement, it would have required much better mid-bass performance to achieve that status.
However, nothing short of a CLX will get me to replace these.
Bigger is better?
One reson to go for them: They are big!
They make an SL3 look tiny
One reson to go for them: They are big!
They make an SL3 look tiny
TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
Jonathan, that photo is AWESOME and really shows the size of those beasts!! very cool
User211
Well-known member
I kind of look at them and think "how can a Summit possibly beat those". And of course, it cannot for sheer scale of image...
Anyone heard both and care to comment?
I wish I could hear a pair in top shape. I have heard the Summit and it is very good, albeit with a dodgy Krell amp that sounded as though it was working far to hard to please....
Justin
Anyone heard both and care to comment?
I wish I could hear a pair in top shape. I have heard the Summit and it is very good, albeit with a dodgy Krell amp that sounded as though it was working far to hard to please....
Justin
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OK , I do love the Monoliths, I almost bought a pair ! They are far from a CLS.(Not in performance just design) The CLS has a TOTALLY different panel.It is a 48 inch panel, but much different in design. It has bass panels built into it on each side, The center panel that produces most of the mids and highs is sectioned off with spars. This design is not by accident either. Bass waves are bigger as we know and the large outside panels will move much more than the horizontal spar areas of the mid panel. Those of us with a CLS know what I mean. Its called the MYLAR dance. Since the Monolith and all ML speakers use a Woofer to take over the panel only needs to drop to about 100 to 200 hz to perform. There is little happening below 100hz with the panel. This is where the beauty of the CLS happens. Its as seamless as it gets in that mid bass area that is critical to the ears. The obvious is the X over set up. The CLS has a slight filter to even things,(impedance) out but its basically X over less.
If you look at all non CLS designs they use horizontal spars and a woofer to take over the bass. This is not bad as it produces a wide sound stage with decent low end. The down fall is the matching of the speed at which things mix and match. There always seemed to be a area that was troublesome with my Quest's woofer to panel integration. Its not a flaw in the design, its the facts. Woofer speed is never up to the panel speed. You can tweak the snot out of the blend like JonFo has done to get the most out of them. . However to get the low end to blend as fast and seamless as a one panel design , it either had to be HUGE (a la the first Statement) or have separate bass sections like the CLS. The problem is that the CLS panel design is about as big as it could have gone. If they went bigger the bass side panels would resonate like a Kazoo. Any one ever wonder why they didn't just make a GIANT CLS for the statement? In the world of MYLAR its a trade off somewhere!
The problem with making LARGE panels as told to me from ML is the matching of them withing +-1 to 2 db. It has been told to me by Jim Power that it took sometimes 5 to 6 panels to make a set that matches within them specs for the original Statement.
So know what does all of this tell us? Not much if you close your eyes and listen to the music!
Look at the pics. The Yellow represents the bass area. The Pink is the start of the lower end. The Teal is midrange and the green is the Higher end. Now for those who have never seen a CLS up close, the panel is actually crimped along the verticle stator line, except for the last 6 inches top and bottom. The Spar separates the sections with a air tight seal all the way to the top, where the the panel fattens out to the 30* curve and allows the mylar to be free moving but still separated from the mid panel with the spar. This is all so subtle that you cant see it well in the pics. the It really is a feat in design to incorporate the full range with in a segmented panels . The key is that although the panel is somewhat segmented , they left the crimp off the top and bottom last 6 inches(where the white lines are) to allow full movement as one dipolar unit.
If you look at all non CLS designs they use horizontal spars and a woofer to take over the bass. This is not bad as it produces a wide sound stage with decent low end. The down fall is the matching of the speed at which things mix and match. There always seemed to be a area that was troublesome with my Quest's woofer to panel integration. Its not a flaw in the design, its the facts. Woofer speed is never up to the panel speed. You can tweak the snot out of the blend like JonFo has done to get the most out of them. . However to get the low end to blend as fast and seamless as a one panel design , it either had to be HUGE (a la the first Statement) or have separate bass sections like the CLS. The problem is that the CLS panel design is about as big as it could have gone. If they went bigger the bass side panels would resonate like a Kazoo. Any one ever wonder why they didn't just make a GIANT CLS for the statement? In the world of MYLAR its a trade off somewhere!
The problem with making LARGE panels as told to me from ML is the matching of them withing +-1 to 2 db. It has been told to me by Jim Power that it took sometimes 5 to 6 panels to make a set that matches within them specs for the original Statement.
So know what does all of this tell us? Not much if you close your eyes and listen to the music!
Look at the pics. The Yellow represents the bass area. The Pink is the start of the lower end. The Teal is midrange and the green is the Higher end. Now for those who have never seen a CLS up close, the panel is actually crimped along the verticle stator line, except for the last 6 inches top and bottom. The Spar separates the sections with a air tight seal all the way to the top, where the the panel fattens out to the 30* curve and allows the mylar to be free moving but still separated from the mid panel with the spar. This is all so subtle that you cant see it well in the pics. the It really is a feat in design to incorporate the full range with in a segmented panels . The key is that although the panel is somewhat segmented , they left the crimp off the top and bottom last 6 inches(where the white lines are) to allow full movement as one dipolar unit.
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David Matz
Well-known member
Monolith vs. Summit Shootout Plan
We need to find a date when Burke and Cherian can do a shootout. I can bring my Ayre universal player and BAT pre to the game.
We need to find a date when Burke and Cherian can do a shootout. I can bring my Ayre universal player and BAT pre to the game.
Horchem1972
Well-known member
Please invite me!
You could charge admission to that.I would love to hear a direct comparison between the two,with the same components.What are the odds of getting to hear those two side by side?That is something I definitely would like to hear.:bowdown::bowdown:
You could charge admission to that.I would love to hear a direct comparison between the two,with the same components.What are the odds of getting to hear those two side by side?That is something I definitely would like to hear.
:bowdown::bowdown:
User211
Well-known member
Awesome post, C.A.P. - never worked out how the CLS operated - much more clued up now.
If I was to put money on it, I bet I'd prefer a Monolith to the Summit. However, I expect I will never hear the Monolith. I bet there are close to no pairs in the UK! Shipping must have been extreme for these. Hence the UK price must have been the same.
If I was to put money on it, I bet I'd prefer a Monolith to the Summit. However, I expect I will never hear the Monolith. I bet there are close to no pairs in the UK! Shipping must have been extreme for these. Hence the UK price must have been the same.
Horchem1972
Well-known member
Cost of shipping
Could you imagine the cost of shipping at around 170lbs just for one speakers without packaging overseas.I have a pair of Monolith II's and would love to hear them next to Summits.Imagine a pair of over 20 year old seakers being able to compete with todays technology.Are new panels for the Monoliths the same as the old ones or are they improved?I would love to get ahold of a Bryston 10B crossover and bypass the stock ones.If the improvement is as great as advertised,it may be a fair fight against the Summits.I do think that the older Logans have a differant sound than the newer models.Both are incredible it just depends on what you prefer.:bowdown:
Could you imagine the cost of shipping at around 170lbs just for one speakers without packaging overseas.I have a pair of Monolith II's and would love to hear them next to Summits.Imagine a pair of over 20 year old seakers being able to compete with todays technology.Are new panels for the Monoliths the same as the old ones or are they improved?I would love to get ahold of a Bryston 10B crossover and bypass the stock ones.If the improvement is as great as advertised,it may be a fair fight against the Summits.I do think that the older Logans have a differant sound than the newer models.Both are incredible it just depends on what you prefer.
:bowdown:
johnwa
Well-known member
I just came from a really poor comparitive test as I played a CD on my Monoliths this afternoon and jumped in the car and auditioned a pair of Summit's (on Sale for about $8,600) and used the same CD while it was still semi fresh in my mind.
Unscientific result = I am keeping the Monoliths at least until I hear the Summit X's or (dare to dream) the CLX's which are going to be on full display in Seattle (Magnolia in Bellevue or the Roselvelt store) on July 10-11th. David Allen, VP Design and Product Dev from ML will be there apparently to answer questions. I hope to see some of the local NW folks on hand. I will be the guy with the discrete bib on to capture the inevitable drool and tears knowing how painful it will be to walk away without ordering a pair or how much trouble I will be in explaining that I have a pair coming.
Notes on the Summit's: awsome and perhaps better than my two channel set up when I have them in my dedicated man den down stairs but not as good (my personal view) when in my HT room where they can really breath. It is amazing what the room differences are and how they pull out the best or worst of a speaker. Of course when I say worst it is a realitive thing as I still think my Sequel's are awsome and can still really sing and hold their own with a lot of high end options out there today. I do wonder what the Summit's might sound like in my 2 Ch room though and might have to test a pair soon in my "real world" dynamics.
Other notes on the Summits: The $8,600 approx asking price was for an open box pair so the guys at DaVinci are really offering a slam'en deal and I confirmed that there will be a $1,500 Summit X upgrade offered so seems like a no lose for anyone sitting on the fense for Summits.
I think Richie Samboria had a similar delima; Stay with Heather Locklare or go with Denese Richards. . . . . . .
Unscientific result = I am keeping the Monoliths at least until I hear the Summit X's or (dare to dream) the CLX's which are going to be on full display in Seattle (Magnolia in Bellevue or the Roselvelt store) on July 10-11th. David Allen, VP Design and Product Dev from ML will be there apparently to answer questions. I hope to see some of the local NW folks on hand. I will be the guy with the discrete bib on to capture the inevitable drool and tears knowing how painful it will be to walk away without ordering a pair or how much trouble I will be in explaining that I have a pair coming.
Notes on the Summit's: awsome and perhaps better than my two channel set up when I have them in my dedicated man den down stairs but not as good (my personal view) when in my HT room where they can really breath. It is amazing what the room differences are and how they pull out the best or worst of a speaker. Of course when I say worst it is a realitive thing as I still think my Sequel's are awsome and can still really sing and hold their own with a lot of high end options out there today. I do wonder what the Summit's might sound like in my 2 Ch room though and might have to test a pair soon in my "real world" dynamics.
Other notes on the Summits: The $8,600 approx asking price was for an open box pair so the guys at DaVinci are really offering a slam'en deal and I confirmed that there will be a $1,500 Summit X upgrade offered so seems like a no lose for anyone sitting on the fense for Summits.
I think Richie Samboria had a similar delima; Stay with Heather Locklare or go with Denese Richards. . . . . . .
theWB
Well-known member
I thought the deal DaVinci was offering on the Summits,($6,899) was too good to pass up, Thats why I jumped on it right away.
In talking to Shawn at DaVinci today, he told me the same thing about the Summit X upgrade being $1,500. He also said that he was hearing the retail on the Summit X's will be around $15,000 and the only change from the Summit will be the crossover. So for $8,400 I could have myself some Summit X's a savings of $6,600.
As of this morning Shawn had one pair of Dark Cherry Summits left. Can't believe someone hasn't jumped on this yet.
David Matz
Well-known member
Wayne,
Congratulations on the Summits! Do you know if the upgrade will be by mail to factory or a DIY kit? I imagine (hope) there will be something similar for the Vantages.
