MartinLogan Frescos with Denon 4306

[dcolt]

Hello all,

Brand new MartinLogan member here. I will be picking up five Frescos on Friday to be paired up with a Denon 4306. I've read a good deal about the speakers and been comparing them for weeks, but I am looking for any guidance about pairing these with the 4306. According to the "official" word from Denon (in the form of the owner's manual), the 4306 can drive speakers from 6 to 16 ohms impedance. I know the Frescos come in at 5 ohms.

Does anyone have any opinions about the 4306's ability to power five frescos? Any first-hand experience in running ML's off of the Denon line? Thanks so much for whatever suggestions you can offer.

 

[Audiophiliac]

You should be fine...just fine. Enjoy it! And post some pics when it is all set up.

 

[Charliemike]

Hello all,

Brand new MartinLogan member here. I will be picking up five Frescos on Friday to be paired up with a Denon 4306. I've read a good deal about the speakers and been comparing them for weeks, but I am looking for any guidance about pairing these with the 4306. According to the "official" word from Denon (in the form of the owner's manual), the 4306 can drive speakers from 6 to 16 ohms impedance. I know the Frescos come in at 5 ohms.

Does anyone have any opinions about the 4306's ability to power five frescos? Any first-hand experience in running ML's off of the Denon line? Thanks so much for whatever suggestions you can offer.

You should have no problems with the 4306. I've heard a pair of Claritys and 3 Frescos at a Magnolia off a Pioneer Elite and they sounded great with no clipping.

Contributions to speaker pron is mandatory

 

[Thai]

You should be fine...the 4306 is actually a very good receiver with a good amp section. See: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/denon-avr-4306

I am driving ML Vantages, Stage, and Vignettes with the 4306. No problems. No clipping. No overheating...amp is warm at worst after 3 hours of continous play. So far, i have not seen the need for a separate amp...the sound is excellent thru it.

 

[Caerus]

When I was researching AVRs, it came down to Denon, Pioneer Elite and Yamaha. What I found was Denons and Pioneers don’t like to operate into 4 or 5 ohm speakers. They state in the operator manual only 6 ohm or above speakers. I even called their respective tech. reps. and they concurred not to use 4 or 5 ohm speakers. The Yamaha will drive 2/4/6/8 ohm or above speakers.

I tried the Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS and it ran hot into five 4 ohm speakers. I had Polk LSi series speakers. Therefore, I got a Rotel RB-1080 200 wpc amp to drive my 4 ohm two main speakers to avoid the problem all together. I used the pre-outs of the Pioneer to the Rotel amp. The Rotel is a high current amp and has no problem driving low ohm speakers. Later, the sub-preout failed (go figure) and I was very happy to take the Pioneer back and get the better quality Yamaha RX-V2700. Tweeter exchanged it for me, no problem. I also then swapped to all Martin Logan speakers at the same time.

As I stated, I called all three tech. reps. Both Denon and Pioneer said not to use less than 6 ohm speakers. Pioneer even stated that would negatively impact warranty claims. Yamaha said no problems will drive any of the speakers. I walked a way thinking negatively on Denon and Pioneer and why they would not support below 6 ohm speakers. I thought Yamaha must have thought this through with their design and robustness and ability to drive any speaker.

It sounds like you already own the Denon, so keep it and see what happens. Set the ohm selection on the AVR to 6 ohm speakers. Your only choice is 6 or 8 ohms. Maybe add a separate slave amp later. As indicated initially, it might sound fine, no clipping and not running to hot. But it’s the long term impact and potential impact to the amp’s components that can degrade over time. So it’s possible the components could pre-maturely fail because the amp was not designed for less than 6 ohm speakers. More efficient (lower ohm) speakers will draw higher current and the amp must be properly designed for those operating conditions.

My research has shown the Yamaha RX-V2700 will drive my 5 ohm Fresco and two 5 ohm Montages and the Rotel is more than capable of driving my 4 ohm Vantages.

Good luck and enjoy those Frescos!

Brad

 

[dcolt]

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice. Based on a review of the specs, it looks like both the Denon 4306 and the Yamaha 2700 have roughly the same power supply and should both be able to drive five Frescos without a problem. I find the 2700 to be an intriguing alternative to the 4306, but I guess I'm troubled by the following:

1) Lack of upconversion through the component outputs and the lack of two component outputs. I like to bi-wire my tv's so that they're connected through both HDMI and component, as I've found that different image sources look better on one format or the other.

2) Lack of digital to analog conversion over the zone 2 and 3 preouts. It's not a huge deal, but that requires bi-wiring my digital sources with analog cables as well in order to pass those to zone 2 and 3 amps elsewhere in the house.

3) And finally, the price point. I know it's silly, but the best price I've been able to find for the 4306 is around $1400, versus under $1K for the 2700. Why the big differential for the two receivers if they're supposedly equal in quality?

 

[dcolt]

You should be fine...the 4306 is actually a very good receiver with a good amp section. See: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/denon-avr-4306

I am driving ML Vantages, Stage, and Vignettes with the 4306. No problems. No clipping. No overheating...amp is warm at worst after 3 hours of continous play. So far, i have not seen the need for a separate amp...the sound is excellent thru it.

Thanks very much for this insight! Glad to hear that the system is working well. I'll post some pics over the weekend after everything is in place. We're pairing up the new Frescos and the 4306 with the Pioneer 6071 plasma, so I think this should be a pretty solid setup for the newly remodeled den. I've spend the last week running new circuits into the room so that I can isolate all of the AV equipment from the lighting and other electrical equipment in the room and I've been busy running coax throughout the house to distribute the zone 2 and 3 preouts to some older amplifiers and speakers in different rooms.

 

[Thai]

3) And finally, the price point. I know it's silly, but the best price I've been able to find for the 4306 is around $1400, versus under $1K for the 2700. Why the big differential for the two receivers if they're supposedly equal in quality?

You get what you paid for. Denon is top-notch in the AVR class. If you read the reviews of both 4306 and 2700 (new one), then you will see that the 4306 is still a better receiver...more consistent results.

 

[Caerus]

Dcolt,

The Yamaha 2700 does upconvert component video outputs. That is what I presently am doing with great results. To me only one output is needed just like only one HDMI output is needed to the TV. Keep in mind the Yammie is $300 less in retail price, so you buy it for less then the Denon.

Sounds like you will have one fine integrated audio/visual system through out your home. I wish I could take advantage of those capabilities. Maybe one day. I have one room that is getting better though.

Thai,

I read both reviews and came to a different conclusion. Both are excellent AVRs for what they do and the price points. Both had pros and cons and it all settled down to what is most important to an individual’s situation.

I wanted to get the Denon 4306, but it bugged me to no end that they told me not to use less than 6 ohm speakers. The Yamaha tech. reps. said no problem; we are designed for use into any ohm speaker. The Denon AVR will probably work fine into 4 or 5 ohm speakers, but why can’t a top notch company like Denon stand behind their products and market the use with less than 6 ohm speakers? I am an Engineer and I only design systems with components for conditions that they were designed for and that the manufacturer will stand behind. That means a lot to me.

 

[Thai]

It's all about company policy when talking with customers. If you really want to know the truth, then look at what the owner's manual says...and for both AVRs, it's 6 and 8 ohms. Yamaha reps may be more lax in what they can tell customers. My Tweeter salesman says that Denon can easily handle 4-ohm...but that does not mean that i trust him. I don't know...but, i certainly would not base all my hopes on what a rep tells me.

The test results tell that both 4306 and 2700 can handle 4-ohm. And according to Audioholics (the only review site that has done both receivers), the Denon still came out slightly on top...the 2700 has slightly more new features (including slightly better upconversion, HDMI 1.2), but the basic function (esp. pre-amp section) is still better in the 4306. And if i were to buy a separate amp in the future, then the Denon is the better receiver because it has a better pre-amp section.

This is why i let my Sony DVD player upconvert rather than my receiver. In addition, my Sony LCD TV does not like it when my Denon upconverts. I am using a special mode on my Sony LCD TV to get 1080p-like picture quality out of my ordinary Sony DVD player...thus, requiring me to upconvert to 1080i at the DVD player. It's a long story...but, yeah, the Yamaha has a better upconversion chip.

 

[Caerus]

Thai,

I have read both manuals prior to selecting an AVR. The Denon very specifically states to use six or above ohm speakers and the use of less than six ohm speakers may cause damage or amp cutout. The Yamaha manual rates the amp in the Specifications Section for 2/4/6/8 ohm speaker use. The 2700 operators manual also states examples of using four ohm speakers and what impedance setting to use. I thought the Denon had a setting for speaker impedance, but I could not find it. The Yamaha has a speaker impedance setting, although you can only select 6 or 8. They state to set it at 6 if using 4 ohm speakers.

Yes I really wanted to know the truth that is why I checked both manuals then I grilled the hell out of the tech. reps to see which company would really stand by their products and warranty it if necessary. Tech. reps. are not that lax as you indicated, especially with my point blank insistence. Lax or erroneous statements can lead to negative consequences to the company they represent and can be career limiting.

Moving on, I just heard Tweeter is closing down 49 stores in the US. This is just after store closing last year in Canada. My sales guy called me up within the hour last night after hearing this news. His present store is closing down and he is transferring to a near by store. He wanted me to know of the big time floor clearance sales to take place in the next eight weeks. I got my sites on a Descent sub-woofer floor model. They also have a Grotto, but no Depth. Also, my eye is on a Krell KAV-400xi integrated amp and KAV SACD Standard CD player.

 

[Thai]

The Yamaha has a speaker impedance setting, although you can only select 6 or 8. They state to set it at 6 if using 4 ohm speakers.

Well, guess why you can only select 6 or 8 ohms...you would think that IF it could do 2- or 4-ohm easily, then you would be able to select it. You cannot.

As for choosing between the two AVRs, different people have different needs. The 4306 and 2700 are reviewed on the same site (audioholics.com) and people can come to their conclusion based on those reviews.

As for Tweeter, i may have to go there next week to check out the deals!:rocker: I am looking for a second flatpanel TV for my gameroom...perfect timing!!