How do you know that you ordered a sub that counts?

[Hocky]

How do you know that you ordered a sub that counts? It gets dropped off by a Semi, on a pallet, using a pallet jack.... and there are 2 of them. I picked these SVS PB13 Ultra's up to potentially replace my JL F212. It is pretty sad that when I got them into the house and was unpacking them, I couldn't help but think how lightweight and easy to move they are. The sad thing about that is that I think they're like 160lbs each and are absolutely massive. The JL is just so much heavier and denser that it is much more difficult man handle. I haven't set them up yet, but my initial impressions are that their shipping time was amazing (3 business days to my door from the click of my order), well packaged, and fit / finish is very nice and easily on par with the much more expensive JL. The cabinets don't feel quite as solid as the JL does, but the JL is a bit smaller in size and a fair amount heavier. They are absolutely huge, though, much bigger than I expected even though I knew the dimensions. lol. I am looking forward to getting them set up and dialed in over the next couple of weeks to see how they perform and what the comparison is to the F212.

 

[topofroc]

Hocky,
My first question - if these SVS subs are "lightweight" for you at 160lbs each, I want to know you do in your free time - juggle boulders? Bend steel bars? ;-)

Seriously - I've very curious to hear your impressions of the two SVS PB13 Ultras as compared to the a single JL F212, especially when it comes to delivering quick and tight bass. Do the two separate subs improve the even distribution of bass (vs. a single sub)?

Also - what main speakers are you using?

 

[Hocky]

Hocky,
My first question - if these SVS subs are "lightweight" for you at 160lbs each, I want to know you do in your free time - juggle boulders? Bend steel bars? ;-)

Seriously - I've very curious to hear your impressions of the two SVS PB13 Ultras as compared to the a single JL F212, especially when it comes to delivering quick and tight bass. Do the two separate subs improve the even distribution of bass (vs. a single sub)?

Also - what main speakers are you using?

In my free time, I juggle JL F212's, unfortunately. lol. These are being paired with Summits and yes, in theory, the pair will create smoother in room response. I got them up and running quick and dirty last night without proper calibration and my initial impression is that they're pretty good. Great dynamic range, great punch, and pretty clean. I felt like the decay may have been a little bit worse on the super punchy stuff compared to the JL, but that may not end up being that case because they're not dialed in and I had a lot of stuff in the room buzzing last night generating noise. As soon as I get them dialed in properly with the measurement hardware, I will report back with more accurate details regarding the way that they compare to the F212.

 

[Hocky]

They're big, but they don't fit in there too badly.

 

[topofroc]

Wow - Looks like you've got an embarrassment of audio riches going on there. Congrats!
Out of curiosity, what's your plan for dialing those monster in (with the rest of your system)?
Do you use the Auto-EQ in your pre-amp/receiver? External parametric EQ?

I just recently integrated minidsp into my dual sub set-up and have been quite pleased.
Also - any other impressions overall?

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hocky,

What don't you like about your JL subs? Or said another way, what do expect your SVS subs to do that the JL subs do not?

I've read great feedback on the JL product.

Beautiful setup by the way.

I would suggest you buy a pair of "subdudes" or equivalent platform to isolate the subs from your floor. Will likely "bump" the performance quite a bit.

Good luck and enjoy.

Gordon

 

[Hocky]

Wow - Looks like you've got an embarrassment of audio riches going on there. Congrats!
Out of curiosity, what's your plan for dialing those monster in (with the rest of your system)?
Do you use the Auto-EQ in your pre-amp/receiver? External parametric EQ?

I just recently integrated minidsp into my dual sub set-up and have been quite pleased.
Also - any other impressions overall?

The subs have built in PEQ. I will measure, set level, phase, PEQ and then run Audyssey to finish it up. I haven't had a lot of time to mess with it, but with no configuration of EQ, just rough level matching and running Audyssey they sound pretty good so far. I would say that they're as articulate as the JL, but I believe that they are more impactful. As soon as I get time to really go through it, I'll post more on what they sound like.

Hocky,

What don't you like about your JL subs? Or said another way, what do expect your SVS subs to do that the JL subs do not?

I've read great feedback on the JL product.

Beautiful setup by the way.

I would suggest you buy a pair of "subdudes" or equivalent platform to isolate the subs from your floor. Will likely "bump" the performance quite a bit.

Good luck and enjoy.

Gordon

I'll hold off on my JL story until I actually see how it plays out this time. If the SVS subs do only exactly what the JL did, I would be happy. It seems so far that I am actually going to get more than that. We'll see. I won't bother with the subdudes because I am on a slab... they really won't make a difference. I don't know that that make them big enough for these silly things, either.

 

[JonFo]

Hocky, congrats on the new subs. those are some big beasts.

As for placement, do you have any alternatives to where you have them shown in the pic?

That does not seem to me to be ideal placement, as for one, being together with summits decreases the number of locations in the room that are being energized with bass, therefore contributing to whatever room modes are engaged at that location. It is advisable to leverage the fact that the subs are separate units and distribute the locations from where bass is energizing the room. So at a minimum, pushing them into the corners would be a small step. Albeit, one with some compromises, but EQ and Audyssey will correct for some of those.

Ideally, you would place one front center and rear wall center. But with your AV setup, not practical. There are other topologies listed in the Harman studies, maybe one might work for your room.

I'm curious to see the measurements and such once you get them.

 

[Hocky]

Hocky, congrats on the new subs. those are some big beasts.

As for placement, do you have any alternatives to where you have them shown in the pic?

That does not seem to me to be ideal placement, as for one, being together with summits decreases the number of locations in the room that are being energized with bass, therefore contributing to whatever room modes are engaged at that location. It is advisable to leverage the fact that the subs are separate units and distribute the locations from where bass is energizing the room. So at a minimum, pushing them into the corners would be a small step. Albeit, one with some compromises, but EQ and Audyssey will correct for some of those.

Ideally, you would place one front center and rear wall center. But with your AV setup, not practical. There are other topologies listed in the Harman studies, maybe one might work for your room.

I'm curious to see the measurements and such once you get them.

I haven't only spent a little time optimizing so far, but it is already pretty flat from 13hz on with only about a 4db dip from 65-80db or so that I need to figure out. I'll post up some charts when they're done, but it should end up pretty even over all.

 

[sleepysurf]

Hocky, just curious if you also considered the new ML BalancedForce subs? Looks like they might have better compatibility with their customized low-pass filter for the Summits, albeit at a higher price point.

 

[Hocky]

Hocky, just curious if you also considered the new ML BalancedForce subs? Looks like they might have better compatibility with their customized low-pass filter for the Summits, albeit at a higher price point.

Honestly, I did not spend very much time considering them. I wanted something with serious output capabilities and I don't think that they have it. I like the Descent design better, really.

 

[sleepysurf]

Honestly, I did not spend very much time considering them. I wanted something with serious output capabilities and I don't think that they have it. I like the Descent design better, really.

FWIW, the BalancedForce 212 and 210 have the same published frequency response specs as the Descent i and Depth i, but heavier, and more powerful amps, with (IMHO) better WAF form factor.

However, I'm waiting for some reviews and other user feedback before committing to a pair.

 

[Hocky]

This is what the initial response looks like before applying any PEQ at the subs individually....

 

[JonFo]

^^ Wow :wow:

 

[Hocky]

^^ Wow :wow:

Can't complain, right? I think after I EQ each one individually, I can get rid of the valley from 45 to 65 hz and it should be rock solid. When I get that done, I'll also do some loud measurements and see what the headroom really looks like.

 

[|Tch0rT|]

Post the unsmoothed response. On AVSforum and Home Theater Shack it's generally accepted to put 1/6 smoothing for full range measurements and no smoothing for under 200hz measurements.

 

[InterMechanico]

Dr. Smoooth

 

[Hocky]

Post the unsmoothed response. On AVSforum and Home Theater Shack it's generally accepted to put 1/6 smoothing for full range measurements and no smoothing for under 200hz measurements.

It isn't much different... a couple of 1.5 db squiggles.

 

[RUR]

Post the unsmoothed response. On AVSforum and Home Theater Shack it's generally accepted to put 1/6 smoothing for full range measurements and no smoothing for under 200hz measurements.

This. S/B 1/12, minimum, in order to see modal peaks and dips. A larger scale would also be helpful e.g. 5Hz increments vs. 20.

Still, an impressive result for pre-EQ.

Can't complain, right? I think after I EQ each one individually, I can get rid of the valley from 45 to 65 hz and it should be rock solid. When I get that done, I'll also do some loud measurements and see what the headroom really looks like.

Heh, if you have headroom issues with those two SVS subs, seek professional help!

Hocky, can you also post the bass decay results? This should be done @ 40dB over noise floor - generally 80-85dB.

 

[Hocky]

I will post some more graphs after I actually get around to trying to dial them in correctly.