HELP PLEASE! New Montis owner just cannot get a centered stereo image

[Z06_Pilot]

Hi folks,

New ML and Montis owner here. Was using Maggie 3.5r's as my front speakers for about 15 years. I burned them in for a couple of weeks with some lovely pipe organ music(that will loosen up the x-over and bass driver for sure!)

and now I'm ready to get my proper placement. I have been working on this for days and am really frustrated. I have attached a couple of pix so you can see what I am dealing with. There is obviously a 73" TV between the two Montis-no way around that, it is what it is. There is nothing in back of the speakers/TV. The walls are poured plaster. I'm sure I will need some sound treatments to fine tune things.

Problem is I can't get a centered vocal stereo image. It's very heavy to the right side.

I have them angled so that I am facing the inner 1/3 of each speaker. I have tried sitting about 1-2 feet further away than the speakers are from each other as well as twice that distance away. I have shifted the speakers to the right(by moving them in front of the tv) to try to center the image. I have tried separating them further away, closer together. nothing seems to really work.

I actually moved the speakers to switch L and R, the vocals still are predominantly on the right side.

I can move the image by applying Left balance via my Anthem AVM50v processor, but that sounds artificial.

I have tried having the speakers 6' from the back wall, and moved them 1' at a time to their current location, about 3.5' from the wall.

Of course I am after that lovely sensation of the voices floating in the center area just as I heard them when I auditioned the speakers.

I thought this would really be the easy part, and fine tuning the sound would actually take the time.....any ideas would be very much appreciated!

Jeff

 

[twich54]

first off you will NEVER get them to sound their best with that TV situated like that !

second, you have a reflective point on the left (window) and an open archway on the right....not good

 

[beek]

Push the TV back further and try heavy drapes over the window & the archway and see what happens.

 

[Tosh]

From the photos it doesn't appear that you are EXACTLY positioning the two speakers symmetrically around the center line of the room. Get out your tape measure, and get them within 1/8 inch of each other (for position, toe, AND rake) with respect to the room's center line. In addition, try to get the TV as far back as possible, with the speakers as far out as possible. Regardless of the actual position, concentrate on exact L-R symmetry.

 

[Bernard]

Have you checked the balance control on your preamp? Maybe it's cranked over to the right?

 

[Bernard]

Push the TV back further and try heavy drapes over the window & the archway and see what happens.

Cover the TV too with the drapes.

 

[JonFo]

From the photos it doesn't appear that you are EXACTLY positioning the two speakers symmetrically around the center line of the room. Get out your tape measure, and get them within 1/8 inch of each other (for position, toe, AND rake) with respect to the room's center line. In addition, try to get the TV as far back as possible, with the speakers as far out as possible. Regardless of the actual position, concentrate on exact L-R symmetry.

What he said!


Also, that setup is going to be helped A LOT with some acoustic treatments directly behind the speakers and along the side walls (but behind the speakers at first reflection point from the front wall bounce).

Order up four Realtraps Minitraps HF and put two at the point they hit the front wall, and two on the side walls at that reflection point and be amazed at how much cleaner and focused the soundstage will be.

 

[Z06_Pilot]

thanks folks. Oh yea, trust me, the open archway is bad, the tv in the middle is bad, and plaster walls are extremely reflective. Problem is, I don't have a dedicated audio listening room. this is my 2 channel and home theater setup....it is what it is, you know? I never had this issue with the Maggie's. Obviously, we are talking different technology I know, but they are both dipole, and my 3.5r's centered very well.....

question. I was thinking about getting an 80" LED TV that is only 3" thick and I was going to mount it on the wall between the two windows. I wonder if that would help? I seems getting that TV out of the middle of the two Montis is key..

my thought being that with the TV on the wall, I could get the speakers positioned for 2 channel listening, and mark my carpet. then when I want to use them as home theater, move them out to the side of the 80" on the wall...

further, I would think I could fashion a drape over the 80" wall mounted tv when listening to 2 channel....

thoughts?

thanks...

 

[roberto]

Hola. All the above, and also try to have 1/3 of the inner part of the stat panel facing you, where you are seated. A flash light helps you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsBUFCsyP4s Happy listening!

 

[Tosh]

I seems getting that TV out of the middle of the two Montis is key..

No! EXACT L-R symmetry is the key...

 

[sleepysurf]

I have a similar room conundrum (sliding glass door on one side, open arch/hallway on opposite, and large screen TV and console cabinet in middle). I pretty much solved this challenge by adding "acoustic bookshelves" (as I call them) behind my Summits (see my system link), which provide a mix of absorption and diffusion. I also pulled my speakers out 48" from front wall, so not in the same plane as TV/cabinet. This significantly improved my overall imaging and soundstage depth.

Also, contrary to many, I feel the dipole radiation of ML's minimizes side wall (first) reflections, as well as reflections off a centrally placed TV. That's not to say such reflections don't exist, but they are not as critical as with dynamic speakers. Regardless, adding absorptive shades or drapes for the window will help.

 

[Nutshell]

I also have a somewhat similar setup, with large windows to the left and an open space to the right. The sound image in my setup also tended to be on the right side, and not in the middle. About 75 percent of this problem was solved by sticking Acoustic System International sugarcubes to every corner of every window, and three to a very large one. In Europe, these small devices of about one cubic centimetre cost eleven euros each. (Which is still quite a sum for small perforated blocks of wood, but they really work.)
Further acoustic measures solved the rest of the issues of my far from perfect room.

 

[twich54]

No! EXACT L-R symmetry is the key...

to think that TV does not effect stereo image is utter nonesense. For the most part those that try and do HT and killer two channel rarely get 'both right'

 

[Z06_Pilot]

this weekend i am actually going to move the tv and the stand out of the room for a day and see what transpires......

 

[twich54]

this weekend i am actually going to move the tv and the stand out of the room for a day and see what transpires......

ZO6....good move, look forward to 'hearing' your results.........

'GS' pilot...aka Dave

 

[ktchnman]

I agree totally with the comment twich54 made. You have a very reflective glass surface on one side and an infinite emptiness on the other (archway). I would actually be more concerned, I think, with the window, and then you can tweak the balance a little to make up for the archway. I wonder, other than drapes, if wood Levelors (or other such window treatments) would help, if that look would be preferred, to cover the windows. The floor, and I can't tell from the pictures if it's tile or stone, also looks very reflective. An area rug would probably help some as well.

 

[sleepysurf]

... I actually moved the speakers to switch L and R, the vocals still are predominantly on the right side...

I would also rule out a problem with your upstream gear by feeding the right speaker cable to the left speaker, and vice versa. If the imaging shifts LEFT, then you have an upstream problem.

 

[User211]

Some great points but one missed.

Turn your back on the speakers. If the image switches to the left it is probably just earwax.

Been there done that

You will get better results with the TV out of the way. Thin panel TV a great idea.

 

[Tosh]

to think that TV does not effect stereo image is utter nonesense. For the most part those that try and do HT and killer two channel rarely get 'both right'

Until the speakers and the listening position (and the large TV) are all symmetrical left to right around the center line of the room, there is little chance of solving OP's immediate problem: "cannot get a centered stereo image." After the center image is solid, he can work on the rest...

 

[Z06_Pilot]

well, here's the story.

Moved the tv and stand out of the room...did not change anything. image still shifted radically to the right channel. I just didn't believe an open archway, windows, and plaster walls could cause that severe of a shift....so I started looking at my gear........bottom line is it's my Anthem AVM50v processor I bought about a month ago...

I am using the DAC in the 50v to decode music from my Oppo-95 player. I tried switching to two channel analog on the 50v, so I am using my DAC in the Oppo player and feeding analog L/R to the Anthem-BAM, centered stereo image. A little tweaking with the toe-in and widening the Montis to about 8 feet apart on center to widen the soundstage a bit and it's fantastic.

I further tested by bringing out my older Anthem 30 processor, and moved my connections to it....both 2 channel audio and digital decode settings were identical-a nice centered stereo image.

I confirmed my settings on the 50v and 30v are identical, but the 50v is doing something when it decodes and outputs an L/R analog signal that shifts it predominantly to the right channel. I will call the Anthem guys up in Missisauga next week. I have both processors set to decode and output a vanilla analog signal-no additional processing, but something is going on specific to the 50v.

I moved the TV back in, leaving the speakers and my listening position untouched, and set it back about 6 inches behind the Montis as someone suggested. They sound really, really good. The speakers just disappear-wonderful. I would say the sound is just a tad bright which I can fix with some sound absorption material as someone suggested.

wow, I was seriously concerned about this.....I will be putting an 80" LED TV on the wall as I mentioned which I'm sure will help me fine tune things but the sound is simply stunning with a wonderful vocal image floating dead center between the two Montis...

thanks folks!

Jeff