Help!, I do not want to say farewell to my ML's

[Thom]

One week ago, I bought a pair of 2nd hand Odysseys and I adore them! As you will know these have a big bass cabinet: a 8" woofer on the front and a 10" woofer on the back.
Of course, I listened to my new speakers in the evenings. But only at moderate volume level. During the week both my neighbours complained about a resonating bass sound. (I live in a partly wooden house, all the houses are placed in a 'row', not separate.)

I has to be that the big 10" woofer on the back of the cabinet is to blame for this. I already took some small measures: placing the spikes, placing the speakers on a tile, a pillow behind each speaker, placing them 40 cm. from the front wall. Unfortunately it does not help very much.

Before I have to sell these babies I want to trie some bass dampening measures, and I HOPE YOU WILL HELP ME WITH THIS (..no, I don't want to go back to conventional speakers .....). So, please what are your soloutions??(oh, and I do have a wife and little children as well).

Is it possible to put a swith before the 10" woofer(so I can swith it on when the neighbours are not at home ;-). I also thought to put a thick cloth under the grill of the woofer, however I think this will damage the woofer.....

Thanks, Tom from Holland

 

[twich54]

placing them 40 cm. from the front wall. Unfortunately it does not help very much.

Thanks, Tom from Holland

Tom, Good day, your distance from the front wall is one problem , being only 40cm(15.7 inches) is not enough, if you could double that distance that would be a nice start.

 

[risabet]

What type of floor do you have? A suspended floor will transmit the bass around very effectively. If you have a suspended floor than you need to decouple the speakers from the floor somehow. Spikes are the last thing you want but something soft to isolate the speaker from the floor. Try isolating the tile from the floor with some Sorbothane balls or such. This is far from the best way to go but you may not have any other options.

PS: a pillow is basically transparent to bass frequencies.

Good luck

 

[Thom]

What type of floor do you have? A suspended floor will transmit the bass around very effectively. If you have a suspended floor than you need to decouple the speakers from the floor somehow. Spikes are the last thing you want but something soft to isolate the speaker from the floor. Try isolating the tile from the floor with some Sorbothane balls or such. This is far from the best way to go but you may not have any other options.

PS: a pillow is basically transparent to bass frequencies.

Good luck

Hi Risabet, I have a parquet floor(I guess this is what you call 'suspended'). Do you have a link URL so I can search on these sorbothane balls?

Thanks for your reply.
TOm

 

[tonyc]

Thom, twich is right on the money. Short of treating the room pulling the speakers farther from the backwall is the easiest way to tame the bass problem, improve soundstaging and enhancing imaging. With every ML I ever owned the farther from the backwall, the more eerily real they sound. Just try it-it's free. Also try moving the speakers closer together.

 

[lugano]

I know I'll get flamed, but...

... I suggest you to buy an equalizer on eBay. Neighbours here ? bring down 2 cursors to -6 dB. Neighbours at work ? Put the equalizer in bypass(straight) mode and enjoy. The last one I bought on eBay was 66 euros...

 

[Thom]

Thom, twich is right on the money. Short of treating the room pulling the speakers farther from the backwall is the easiest way to tame the bass problem, improve soundstaging and enhancing imaging. With every ML I ever owned the farther from the backwall, the more eerily real they sound. Just try it-it's free. Also try moving the speakers closer together.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif


Thanks Tony, I'll give it a serious try, howeverr I foresee another discussion with my wife on this....So I also keep thinking of other clever bass taming solutions. I should have chosen the ascents instead of odysseys, they do not have the woofer on the back of the cabinet.
Tom

 

[Thom]

... I suggest you to buy an equalizer on eBay. Neighbours here ? bring down 2 cursors to -6 dB. Neighbours at work ? Put the equalizer in bypass(straight) mode and enjoy. The last one I bought on eBay was 66 euros...

What an excellent solution!! While I have never had an equalizer: can you just connect it to the preamp with an interlink. And what brands of good equalizers would you recommend? I look forward to your reply.
Tom

 

[roberto]

What an excellent solution!! While I have never had an equalizer: can you just connect it to the preamp with an interlink. And what brands of good equalizers would you recommend? I look forward to your reply.
Tom

Hola...also at their´s back you have a switch that lowers the bass...and you could only in one speaker to reverse the polarity...and you will kill all the bass...happy listening,
Roberto.
:musicnote:

 

[amey01]

Oh no! - don't sell them whatever you do - even listening to them quietely will be better than cone speakers!

It is difficult when you have attached housing - move them further away from the wall, thats for sure, and isolate them from the floor - try placing them on a granite or marble slab.

The idea of an equaliser is also a very good one - try the Behringer DSP1124P - I use this primarily for sub EQ, but it is a fully parametric unit that allows you to specify the frequencies you equalise, bandwidth and so on. Perhaps put it in the tape monitor loop of your preamp so that you can switch it out when the neighbours are out without any signal degradation.

Now it gets very expensive - you may need to treat the wall behind the speakers - I know here in Australia, a company called Boral makes a product called "Cinemazone", but I'm sure you can get many kinds of soundproofing plasterboard.

Otherwise, arrange with your neighbours a couple of hours a week when you can really "crank it up"!

Good luck.

 

[risabet]

Have to disagree with the equalizer idea. One of the benefits to owning ML speakers is their high level of transparency. Most affordable equalizers will ruin that completely IMO. For me an EQ would be the last resort.

 

[Joey_V]

Have to disagree with the equalizer idea. One of the benefits to owning ML speakers is their high level of transparency. Most affordable equalizers will ruin that completely IMO. For me an EQ would be the last resort.

I think eq is the best thing to do here.... also, make sure to come to an agreement with your neighbors as to when you can play your system. They HAVE to let you listen sometime or another.

Like me, for example, I live in an apartment and I came to a compromise with my neighbors (all 3 of them around me) that I can play until 10p as loud as I want as long as it's not overbearingly loud (like 100db all the time) or as long as they're not studying for an exam.

But, the eq is the best idea so you can listen when the neighbors are in or when they need their "quiet" time. You can always remove the eq during those times when you're free to play the Ascents!

Or.... upgrade to the Summits and use the built-in eq as I do!

 

[amey01]

Have to disagree with the equalizer idea. One of the benefits to owning ML speakers is their high level of transparency. Most affordable equalizers will ruin that completely IMO. For me an EQ would be the last resort.

Absolutely! - that is why I said:

Perhaps put it in the tape monitor loop of your preamp so that you can switch it out when the neighbours are out without any signal degradation.

 

[Dreamer]

or you could move to the USA.

Over here, we have fire codes that require that the walls between rowhouses be fireproof--this usually means cinderblock or brick, and that the floor and roof joists for each unit are independantly hung, so fire can't travel from unit to unit. One would assume that this would also kill a lot of the vibration, unit to unit.

When I lived in a townhouse in VA about 10 years ago, I was driving my Sequels with Carver Silver 7t's. They were on the ground floor, on a concrete slab floor, and I drove them pretty hard, but never once got a complaint from the neighbors...

Or if you don't wat to "cross the pond", you could try putting your speakers up on some sort of absorbant puck like sorbothane, or lacrosse balls or something. If you go to a hardware store, you can get 1.5" iron pipe flange fittings and a lacross or tennsi ball will sit very nicely into it, giving you a VERY stable but vibration isolating platform if you use 5 or 6 under each speaker. Of course it will also raise your speakers about 2" higher. Of course, I'd only recommend putting your Logans up on balls if you don't have any kids, pets, or drunk friends...

Good luck with your situation,
--Richard

 

[kcl]

All of the suggestions you're getting are good, but my recommendation comes from a different direction. Whatever you attempt, be sure to involve the neighbors that are complaining. Something like, "I'm very sorry about the problem, but I really love my new speakers. I'm more than willing to do what's needed to correct it, but I could really use your input. Would you be willing to help me decide what's best?" Then go ahead and get them involved with the changes. ("Is that better now?" "Is it something we can live with?" "Could we agree on a time that its acceptable?") You would not only be getting them to "buy in" to whatever is being done, they'll be able to hear the wonderful sound from your system. You would essentially be changing a confrontational situation to a cooperative one, and its been my experience that without doing that you almost always have unacceptable results.

 

[Beat_Dominator]

Geez kcl, that sounds like a lot of work

 

[IWalker]

Equalizer is a good idea. What I've found with mine is that you only get signal degredation (and even then it's fairly slight) in the range where your EQ filters apply. So, as long as you're only filtering the bass frequencies, you should be happy with the results.

Also, the fact that the woofer is rear firing really has nothing to do with the issues you're having, to my knowledge it is done that way purely to offset the mechanical distortion from the front woofer. If the 10 was facing forward you would have the same issue. At bass frequencies, the wave is omnidirectional, and has a very long wavelength, and will travel through a lot of things...probably exciting some of them along the way (rattling dishes in cabinets, etc)

Decoupling them from your floor and EQ are both great ideas. Moving them farther from the wall I don't think would change much OUTSIDE the room.

A much more drastic measure, but a cheaper one, is just disconnecting your jumpers between panel and woofers (odysseys have one, right? I know my quests do) which would cut the woofers out completely. Not an ideal solution at all...but depending on how severe the resonance is, it could be a budget option for late-night. I'd certainly give the equalizer a try before I did this though.

 

[kcl]

Geez kcl, that sounds like a lot of work

Compared to all the time, effort, and money spent on the MLs and system?

 

[timm]

Compared to all the time, effort, and money spent on the MLs and system?

I agree with KCL... you have to talk with these people... Problem - I have Odysseys - and I'm sorry - they don't kick out the bass. I love them to death - but, I think if you brought in any pair of speakers - you might have the problem with your neighbors. I too would not do EQ - agree with (I think) risabet. Great - you make your logans sound thin and harsh to keep the neighbors happy? I feel for you. I think you have to talk to them - crank it up - and go have a listen in their space. Some people will be annoyed by a little vibration. I have my odysseys downstairs - and yes - the bass certainly resonates upstairs - but the listening environment doesn't sound boomy at all. How LOUD are your listening? It is easy to crank the Logans up because they sound so clean....

 

[TomDac]

I agree with KCL... you have to talk with these people... Problem - I have Odysseys - and I'm sorry - they don't kick out the bass. I love them to death - but, I think if you brought in any pair of speakers - you might have the problem with your neighbors. I too would not do EQ - agree with (I think) risabet. Great - you make your logans sound thin and harsh to keep the neighbors happy? I feel for you. I think you have to talk to them - crank it up - and go have a listen in their space. Some people will be annoyed by a little vibration. I have my odysseys downstairs - and yes - the bass certainly resonates upstairs - but the listening environment doesn't sound boomy at all. How LOUD are your listening? It is easy to crank the Logans up because they sound so clean....

I agree with Timm. Don't use an EQ.. It's a major compromise.