Do You Still Love your CLS's?

[Chuck Lee]

Do you still love

I still love them,enough to have 2 pair.
Sometimes I run a complete ML surround system with 4 CLS 11z and a depth sub and Theatre centre.
Sometimes I just run one pair with the Depth in a 2 channel system,
and I have used 2 pair,side by side in a 2 channel system that had an uncanny sense of increased bass power and over-all filled the room with more sound in all frequencies.
The CLX sounds interesting,but I am not in favour of another hybrid design.
A larger, just panel ,speaker is what I would have hoped for.
A CLS on steroids.
There are people who don't care if their speakers are large,and buy the large Soundlabs.I have a friend who has the Ultimates,and he doesn't need any sub hobbled on to give realistic bass.Please don't give us a new Monolith

 

[Pcar928fan]

The CLX sounds interesting,but I am not in favour of another hybrid design.
A larger, just panel ,speaker is what I would have hoped for.
A CLS on steroids.

I thought that is what the CLX was going to be? Did I miss something?

 

[hoodjem]

Karma,

I have CLS-Is that are still going strong after 18 years. I still love the sound, and the only tweaks I have done are to add a Depth sub about three years ago, and replace the power cords with a more expensive after-market PC.

I do wipe down the stator panels with a micro-fiber cloth every few weeks to get rid of the accumulated dust. I have also placed heavy pentangular concrete blocks on the electronics base to help mass load each speaker. It did help stabilize the image and increase the focus.

But in any case, I love them,
Hdy

 

[Pcar928fan]

I do wipe down the stator panels with a micro-fiber cloth every few weeks to get rid of the accumulated dust.

Do you vacuum them? That is what will do the most good for them. Use a very powerful vacuum and it will get all the little dust particles out that you can't even get to w/ a microfibre cloth. Be careful not to scratch the finish of the stators as you are using the vacuum... If they are sizzling even a little bit this will take care of them.

 

[hoodjem]

Pcar,
I'm willing to try vacuuming them, but please do tell me a few more details.

Do you use a hose type with a brush?

Do you put the end of the hose right against the stator panels?

If you get things too close, can you damage anything?

Can you suck the mylar diaphragm too hard, so that it touches the stators?

Any other cautions or suggestions?

hoodjem

 

[karma]

HI Pcar,
I live in a very dusty environment and my CLS's were a magnet for dust. About every 2 weeks I vacuumed mine with a normal brush taking care to work the bristles into the holes in the stators. I am a little careful but the speakers seem to be very tolerant of such treatment. I've never harmed anything. I might be a little reluctant to use my shop vacuum. Take it slow at first to get a feel for how it works.

After the first year or so I began to unplug them between uses and they collected dust much more slowly. Recently I upgraded to the newer sensing power supplies. My dust problem seems solved. They still need vacuuming once in a while but much less often.

Sparky

 

[Pcar928fan]

Pcar,
I'm willing to try vacuuming them, but please do tell me a few more details.

Do you use a hose type with a brush?

Do you put the end of the hose right against the stator panels?

If you get things too close, can you damage anything?

Can you suck the mylar diaphragm too hard, so that it touches the stators?

Any other cautions or suggestions?

hoodjem

Jim Power THE MAN at ML says to use the most powerful vacuum you have to work these guys over. I don't generally use a brush. What I do is grab the very end of the hose so that the side of my HAND provides the seal against the panel vs. the hose itself touching the panel. That way I won't scratch it.

The diaphragm is SO strong Jim says you won't have a vacuum strong enough to hurt it!

Once you have a good seal just try to maintain it as much as you can and go up and down the panel till you have vacuumed the whole thing FRONT AND BACK! It is a big job if you have Prodigy, Ascent, Theater, and Scripts in your HT system!

 

[lugano]

What I do is grab the very end of the hose so that the side of my HAND provides the seal against the panel vs. the hose itself touching the panel.

Yes, that's exactly what I do, too. I use our vac cleaner at its full power (1600 W) and the "narrow" accesory, hold as a pencil in my hand. (the rightmost in the attached small pic).

It is a big job if you have Prodigy, Ascent, Theater, and Scripts in your HT system!

It is even a bigger job with a CLS pair, PorscheFan, believe me Takes about 40 minutes if done properly....

 

[karma]

HI lugano,
I just took a peek at your system. It's very beautiful. I especially like the way the back lighting shows throught the panels. How do you think a color wheel behind each speaker would look?

 

[lugano]

How do you think a color wheel behind each speaker would look?

Aargh... one of the battles I have to fight almost daily is the one against kitsch... and I fear that it would look exactly that way. But maybe a couple of really big lava lamps ?

Kidding apart, it could be a nice add-on, to be plugged-in only in special moments. Would you suggest something adapting itself to the played music, or just plain cycling through colors ? Any products you know ?

 

[karma]

HI lugano,
I sort of agree. That's why I have not installed color wheels. And I also think a music senitive lighting system might be pretty neat but I don't know of one.

A passive wheel might be worth a try. I think it is worth looking into because the see-through panels just beg for something that takes avantage.

Maybe someone else has some ideas. Roberto and Robin, in all your travels through the audio world, have you seen anything like this? Do you think it is a good idea? Inquiring minds want to know.

BTW, I have diffusers behind the CLS's which could produce something visually interesting. :cheers:

Sparky

 

[hoodjem]

Jim Power THE MAN at ML says to use the most powerful vacuum you have to work these guys over. I don't generally use a brush. What I do is grab the very end of the hose so that the side of my HAND provides the seal against the panel vs. the hose itself touching the panel. That way I won't scratch it.

The diaphragm is SO strong Jim says you won't have a vacuum strong enough to hurt it!

Once you have a good seal just try to maintain it as much as you can and go up and down the panel till you have vacuumed the whole thing FRONT AND BACK! It is a big job if you have Prodigy, Ascent, Theater, and Scripts in your HT system!

Thanks Pcar,

All this is good to know. I'll give it a shot.

Hoodjem

 

[The Observatory]

Love CLS II's - YES

Hi folks,

love that thread. I am an aficionado of the CLS II panels.

I run mine as front speakers in a quadraphonic system with a pair of Aerius i as rear. Mainly listening to classical music, they do present a non-forgiving sound stage for source material and reproduction (audio technician, recording material and equipment to play back the recorded sound). Many may not like this critical panel. I want to separate the good from the mediocre and bad recordings. None better than the CLS II's, from my experience.

An added subwoofer creates a totally different sound effect from the CLS II's. It can enhance but also diminish the hearing experience. On certain records, I switch it off (leave it 'on' in organ music, of course).

If it was not for cables switching, I would even recommend different amplifiers for different music. Each amplifier makes the CLS II's sound different; not necessarily 'better' but 'different'.

When I added the Aerius i as rear speakers, I had even more adjustments to make qua positioning. Four ML's to adjust do not make life easier! At first the sound was dead, then slowly I got into the groove with the four.

In a second quadraphonic setup in a similar room size (35'x25'x12') but in a stone building (the CLS II's play in a wooden A-frame), I run a pair of QUEST as front with Sequel II's as rear. Although the two rooms are some 600 mi apart, I would rate the CLS II's the more precise and critical panel. there is a fuller but less critical sound from the Sequel II and Quest's.

Next project? Another set of CLS II's to mate with the room where first set is.

Arthur

 

[lugano]

Hi folks,

love that thread. I am an aficionado of the CLS II panels.

I would even recommend different amplifiers for different music. Each amplifier makes the CLS II's sound different; not necessarily 'better' but 'different'.

Hello Arthur, wonderful to read another swiss guy's thoughts. A small country with lots of Martin Logan fans, great to be part of it. The truth is that every recording makes the CLS sound different, and when everything stays the same in our setup, we must conclude that the "problem" is not with the CLS , it's with the sound engineer. We are listening to what they decided to deliver us. And if you think of it, it simply means that on our side, we solved the problem, it can't get better We just have to hunt for better material...

 

[nsgarch]

Sparky, check out my system #40 for a good explanation/evolution of a CLS system that I've maintained now for over 16 years.

 

[karma]

HI nsgarch,
Lovely system, IMO. I wonder why we come to such different conclusions concerning the SW800's. It not as though I am inexperienced with subwoofers having had subs on various speakers since the mid-'70's. We must be dealing with setup issues here. I'm sure you have good sonic taste. Yet, we conclude very differently. One difference may be our chosen crossover frequencies. I cross the system over at 67HZ, very carefully chosen. This is much lower than most folks cross the CLS's over. I have my reasons. Also, my high pass crossover is a personally designed passive unit. The low pass crossover is the Kinnergetics unit.

Also, I think you have your ARC models wrong. You state the M300's to be 140W triode monoblocks. I do not believe this is correct. The M300's were 6550 (beam pentodes) based 300W hybrid amps. I have never heard them but have read inconclusive reviews. "Inconclusive" is not very important because it's rare that any two reviewers agree. Our own ears are the only important thing.

I have the Levinson No. 23 amp driving the SW-800 subs with which they do a very good job. I would rather have a mondo Krell but the No. 23 is good.

The Levinson also drove my CLS's for a while and sounded very good. But my ARC D-250 is significantly better and mates with my ARC SP-11 preamp better.

Obviously we have different sonic goals. Nothing wrong with that as long as the system is assembled with knowledge and taste. I’m sure I would like your system very much.

BTW, I used to have a Nak CR-7A; a wonderful machine. It was replaced by my mint Dragon. They are both excellent but somewhat different. The Dragon is a little more forgiving yet does not lack in high frequency performance. This is definitely a case of different tastes dictating a choice. Giving up the CR-7A was a very tough decision because it had features and sound that I really liked. But I loved the sound of the Dragon and, to be honest, I think the Dragon is quite simply stunning looking. Call me frivolous but so be it.

Sparky

 

[nsgarch]

Hi Sparky, yeah, I don't know why the SW800s never did it for me. It may have had to do with their crossover which I could just never dial in. Before that I had a Bryston 10B crossover which was wonderful with my Wilson Puppies, and very versitile. But I have to say, Depth sub and CLS is a match made in heaven! I just let the panels do their thing. IMO, no high pass is necessary, because unlike many cone woofers, they simply don't produce low bass, distorted or otherwise, so they require no high pass "relief". They just roll off quite naturally starting at around 60-70 Hz. I bring in the the sub at 35 or 45 depending on the material, and it's really magic (as in seamless.)

I too ran my panels with my 23.5 for awhile, but I finally got a new tube amp that I'm crazy about, The Mcintosh MC275 Mk IV. Just that little extra magic with tubes ;--)

BTW, the ARC M300 Mk II was indeed available in a 140W triode version for an additional $2000. (http://www.arcdb.ws/M300/M300.html) The original M300 didn't get great press, but the Mk II was well received. I actually had mine trioded at the factory along with MIT caps and then installed Flying "C" Svetlana 6550's. Now those were really great amps! But I have to say (from what I can remember anyway ;--) that I like the CLS's with the Mcintosh a little better.

I understand Martin Logan has a CLX (or was it CSX?) in the works. I'll listen to it when it comes out, but I'll never give up my CLS's!

 

[hoodjem]

Thanks Pcar,

All this is good to know. I'll give it a shot.

Hoodjem

Pcar,

I have one last question:

Do you unplug the speakers before doing all this vacuuming, or do you leave them all charged up?

Hoodjem

 

[nsgarch]

Pcar,

I have one last question:

Do you unplug the speakers before doing all this vacuuming, or do you leave them all charged up?

Hoodjem

It depends. The CLS IIz has a circuit that cuts the power to the panels if there's no signal (so they won't collect dust) so no need to unplug them. All previous models should be unplugged.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Pcar,

I have one last question:

Do you unplug the speakers before doing all this vacuuming, or do you leave them all charged up?

Hoodjem

You don't need to unplug them, just be sure they have not been powered on in the last 12 hours so that all the static charge has dissipated. All the later models turn off when not in use, so no unplugging. If they are the always on type ML (and I am not sure which ones those are) then yes, you would need to unplug them for at least 12 hours.