Do You Still Love your CLS's?

[karma]

HI All,
Being a proud and very satisfied CLS owner since the II's (upgraded to IIA's and new panels) came out, I have a question. But first, here is just a little background.

About 2 years after I bought my CLSIIA's, our local (Santa Fe, New Mexico) ML dealer became an EX ML dealer. Now, the closest dealer is many hundreds of miles away. Consequently, I have not heard any of the newer ML speakers past the Quests with which I have quite a lot of listening experience. I know this is a long time on the technical development time line.

I have serched the forum for CLS posts and found quite a few but not many are recent. I realize the CLS's have been off the market for a few years and the CLS series were never a huge seller for ML. Thus, most of the current generation of ML owners have the hybrid designs. That probably accounts for the scarcity of recent CLS posts.

For you current or former CLS owners, have you changed to other ML models or, heaven forbid, another maker? Or do you want to? How do you think the CLS's stand up to the march of progress?

If you changed, I would like to know what you changed to and why.

I should note that deep bass, the soft spot of the CLS performance, is not an issue for me. Mine are paired with Kinnergetics SW800 subs with which I am very satisfied. Though I would be surprised if any of the hybrid woofers could compare with the SW800's, it could still be true. Of couse, if I ever decided to change away from my CLSIIA's, I would then be faced with making a decision on bass performance. No matter. I still would like to hear your views.

I am more interested in performance in the midrange and treble. That aside, I would be interested in any comments you may have concerning any of the CLS series relative to the newer designs.

Thanks, Sparky

 

[MiTT]

Sparky, I think there are actually quite a few CLS owners here and all are pretty passionate about them. The newest system listed in the Members Systems is in fact CLS based.

My system is based around the ReQuests, which I deeply love, and which I will likely keep forever. That being said, my long term plan is to base my 2 channel system around a CLS or (hopefully) CLX setup, reserving the ReQuests for multichannel audio and video as surrounds.

I believe that my ReQuests have the sweetest midrange of all of the ML "Hybrid" models, but I have always loved and longed for the full monty electrostatic experience you have with your CLS's. I will be building a dedicated room over the next several years that will serve both audio and video purposes, but be heavily biased toward the AUDIO rquirements, specifically with full range electrostat transducers in mind.

One other thought - most of the CLS systems I've noticed here are paired with some very good associated gear (such as your own), and "mostly" dedicated to 2 channel audio as opposed to home theater. Don't mean to generalize, but here goes... I think the CLS's are most appealing to those people who are VERY deeply into their music. They are used and desired by people who are deeply touched by and desire to communicate directly with the music that is being presented.

BTW, when will you be posting your system in the Members Section? I don't recall seeing it over there. Would love to see some pictures of your setup.

 

[Kaliar]

I sure love mine !

For you current or former CLS owners, have you changed to other ML models or, heaven forbid, another maker? Or do you want to? How do you think the CLS's stand up to the march of progress?

Hi Sparky,

Rather than change, I have added an Odyssey system to my stable, but my CLS IIa setup is still the darling. In fact, since the addition of a Depth sub, I spend more and more time listening to my CLS, neglecting a bit the "main" system...

As far as the newer ML products go, I have listened to Summits in a very good setup (Nordost Thor, Hovland amplification, Simaudio Moon SuperNova CD player, Nordost Valhalla cabling) but don't feel compelled at all to "upgrade" !

Considering all the upgrades I have made during the last three years, that tells a lot !

Equipment comes and goes, music stays !

 

[alexl911]

Still love mine!

...eventhough they are for sale!

Now that I live in Europe and moving every 2-3 years, I never have the right listening space. That's the problem with these speakers -they're very demanding on equipement and placement.

See my system: 16

 

[jfm]

Sparky,

Could you talk a bit about your SW800s. They don't get covered much. How do they blend with the CLSes and how big do they sound? Some say that a typical dvd will make the SW800s shake a lot and a Depth would be better...anyway, how would your subs compare with a Depth or Descent?

Thanks!

 

[lugano]

I am very happy with my CLS II's. Before january ends, I should get the replacement panels I ordered more than a month ago. I listened to prodigys, vantages and summits, and was not at all blown away by the soundstage, as I am with my CLS. For me the absence of deep bass is not an issue, too, because my Rel sub takes care of that effortlessly. So the answer is definitely yes, I'm in love with their sound, with their design and with their wow factor, as well.

 

[zbub]

Hi Sparky,

Don't know if I am considered a rare breed, but I am sticking with my CLS I's. After I bought mine 19 years ago I have listened to every upgrades since (II, IIa, IIz), and believed that even though the bass has improved (but still cannot be considered full-range and subwoofers are still needed even with the IIz), the upgrades also lost some of the magic that I so cherished with the I.

However, since the IIz are a little easier to drive than the IIa, and if ML still offers this upgrade (I believe the mod is in the electronic only, the panels are still the same as IIa), I'd go for it if I were you since you have the IIa already and might as well go all out.

 

[karma]

Hi Sparky,

Don't know if I am considered a rare breed, but I am sticking with my CLS I's. After I bought mine 19 years ago I have listened to every upgrades since (II, IIa, IIz), and believed that even though the bass has improved (but still cannot be considered full-range and subwoofers are still needed even with the IIz), the upgrades also lost some of the magic that I so cherished with the I.

However, since the IIz are a little easier to drive than the IIa, and if ML still offers this upgrade (I believe the mod is in the electronic only, the panels are still the same as IIa), I'd go for it if I were you since you have the IIa already and might as well go all out.

HI zbub,
I have already replaced my panels. They have about 225 hours on them and sounding VERY good. I also relpaced the high voltage power supplies with the newer sensing designs. These were used in the IIZ's. However, the IIZ crossover is no longer available. I guess I have CLS IIAi's So, I have taken the factory upgrade path as far as I can.

I should underline that I LOVE my CLSIIA's. I'm not looking to get rid of them.

My question really centers around the age of the CLS design and if the newly designed panels offer any striking improvements.

Sparky

 

[karma]

HI All,
There must be more CLS folks out there in cyber-land. Please add you thoughts.

Thanks, Sparky

 

[mvhendel]

Love my CLSs

ML hasn't done a speaker that comes close IMO. Looking forward to the CLX as these are getting a little old but sound is the best I have ever heard, holographic!
For classical and jazz, especially, just beautiful. Don't do HT.
Michael Hendel

 

[raanan]

Love -hate relationship.

Have been in a love-hate relationship with my CLS IIAs for the past 18 years.
Latest discovery-polycrystal reference isolators under the speakers give dramatic results-smoother sound and more bass than with the standard spikes.Additional things that contribute to better sound:Granite Audio 555 power cords,Audio Magic speaker cables,a high powered tube amp,and above all-placement,placement,placement.
Raanan
N.B. My relationship with my bedroom SL3s is more stable.

 

[Dan Osib]

I own the CLS IIz. With the modification in place (check http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=340
With the mod the sound quality with from these speakers (with the exception of bass) can't be improved upon. It is state of the art. Even after 3 years of owning these fabulous panels I am still in awe of their looks. I can't get used to looking at them.

 

[roberto]

they are like garlic...or you love their flavor or you hate it...

Hola...the CLSs are one of the most controversial speakers ever made. Why? Because with some recordings will provide you like having the musician(s) in front to you, and others you can`t even play them because the sound is so bad...(the recording itself). You can listen all what the recording eng. did on each recording easy. Many other speakers on the market, gives you a less detail of how the recording was made, and these feature makes them more "musical" than the CLS. But when the recording is great as an example Steve Daves, Quality of Silence Album, or Robert Silverman Beethonven 32 sonatas, you are in a field where other spakers will never get to this level of realism. The CLS IMHO, are not for every one. They do have a lot of work to do, and also the bass. Here is where most of us disagree. Like me, I have never heard any other speaker with the bass quality that they have, and when I say bass, I mean double bass, not organ of course...they don´t go that deep...but I rather have the bass player at the stage than big heavy bass in my listening room...it is a matter of taste and liking...so I do respet many other CLS users using subs with them. I start with the three 12" woofers and two towers from Entec long time ago, around the lates 80s, did try a lot of different configurations, and ended now with a ML Dynamo for HT only. I don´t want to start again another controversial regarding how much bass do you need for music...please understand that this is my liking, and I had tried before many different arrays and sub positions. What I get from my CLS, for the type of music that I listen in two channels, the bass is just enough for my room...and every time that I play them, it is a musical journey experience to my ears and always makes me to tap with my feet the floor...a big smile and a wonderful feeling coming from my soul!...happy listening to all,
Roberto.

 

[karma]

HI All,
That's better. I knew there were more CLS folks hiding out there.

I can definitely understand a love/hate relationship. My CLSIIA's are the most demanding speakers, by far, of any I have owned. At some point I decided that speakers don't get much better than my CLS's. Therefore, concede the battle and optimize around those speakers. To me, that meant a total committment to every detail of the equipment and room. Obviously, I had to observe the constraints of my income.

The CLS's are ideal speakers to show the exact sonic state of one's system. They can be thought of as test equipment and be so used. They are great for auditioning cables and amps (and pre's). One must be careful of the vicious high frequency impedance drop. Many amps, especially tubes, cannot handle the current requirements.

Sparky

 

[karma]

Hola...the CLSs are one of the most controversial speakers ever made. Why? Because with some recordings will provide you like having the musician(s) in front to you, and others you can`t even play them because the sound is so bad...(the recording itself)...... But when the recording is great as an example Steve Daves, Quality of Silence Album, or Robert Silverman Beethonven 32 sonatas, you are in a field where other spakers will never get to this level of realism..... The CLS IMHO, are not for every one. They do have a lot of work to do, and also the bass. ...and every time that I play them, it is a musical journey experience to my ears and always makes me to tap with my feet the floor...a big smile and a wonderful feeling coming from my soul!...happy listening to all,
Roberto.

HI Roberto,
It's good to speak to you again. Since you are a long term ML dealer, maybe you more than most can address my original question. Which was whether any of the newer ML panel designs have exceeded the CLS's in the critical midrange and treble including both imaging and soundstaging.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject.

Thanks, Sparky

 

[roberto]

HI All,
That's better. I knew there were more CLS folks hiding out there.

I can definitely understand a love/hate relationship. My CLSIIA's are the most demanding speakers, by far, of any I have owned. At some point I decided that speakers don't get much better than my CLS's. Therefore, concede the battle and optimize around those speakers. To me, that meant a total committment to every detail of the equipment and room. Obviously, I had to observe the constraints of my income.

The CLS's are ideal speakers to show the exact sonic state of one's system. They can be thought of as test equipment and be so used. They are great for auditioning cables and amps (and pre's). One must be careful of the vicious high frequency impedance drop. Many amps, especially tubes, cannot handle the current requirements.

Sparky

Hola Sparky, I can´t listen my cls with SS. I trust my ears and not in specs...also, it depends a lot of the quality of the output transformer used...the detail, the stage, the size of the instruments, the fingering at the guitar player, the air between instruments, the sweet sound of the clarinet, or the piano, the feeling of the musician(s) playing for you is what I get from my tube amp. Also, please understand it is my liking as I do unserstand yours!...by the way, my amp has a 2 ohm setting impedance...and I don´t like it at all, I use 8 ohm tab instead of the others...this setting gives me the kind of bass that I like, besides makes the cymbals to be with the drummer, and not 6´away from him...of course there are many good sounding SS like Mark Levinson, Krell, Plinius, etc...as I said before, it is my liking and not necessay yours...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[enilsen]

No crossovers, No compromising

Of course we still love our CLS's. Where else can you get a full-range speaker that doesn't have to compromise with a crossover? The fact that they demand great attention to placement and room configuration is merely pointing out that audio reproduction is a delicate science. They are built using the simplicity needed to ensure that the KIS principle is applied hence very few parts are used to influence the sound quality. :rocker:

 

[roberto]

Of course we still love our CLS's. Where else can you get a full-range speaker that doesn't have to compromise with a crossover? The fact that they demand great attention to placement and room configuration is merely pointing out that audio reproduction is a delicate science. They are built using the simplicity needed to ensure that the KIS principle is applied hence very few parts are used to influence the sound quality. :rocker:

Agreed 100%...also keep it simple (kis), coherence is the clue. CLS lovers are very demanding and very different also in our own setting and system gear. But what we like most is the truth, the way that the CLS sings without effort and gives thousand hours of musical enjoyment...happy listening friends,
roberto.

 

[jjqiv]

Love mine!

 

[karma]

Sparky,

Could you talk a bit about your SW800s. They don't get covered much. How do they blend with the CLSes and how big do they sound? Some say that a typical dvd will make the SW800s shake a lot and a Depth would be better...anyway, how would your subs compare with a Depth or Descent?

Thanks!

HI jfm,
Rather than reply here and have the post missed by most I will, in the near future, start a thread concerning the SW800's. They are definitely worth a few words.

Sparky