CLSIIz

[Brad225]

I found some CLSIIzs this weekend. Some of you may have seen them on Audiogon. They are from 1992. The person I bought them from buys and sells vintage equipment. He said he got them from the original owner and played with them for a few weeks before putting them up for sale.

In the photo they had spring clips along the top and bottom of the panels for what ever reason. I asked if he had taken them off to see if the panels were separating, he said he did and they seemed fine.

He did say one of the panels clearly played louder than the other, but not so much he could not easily compensate with the balance control. He said they sounded the same as other CLSs the had heard in the past. I asked if he had cleaned them at all to try to cure the problem and he said he had not.

For $600 it was a no brainer for me. He said he felt it was the value if the panels were useless. I ordered new panels today, but I will play with them a little to see if the panels are salvageable. At 15 years old I'm sure it is worth it to have new panels.

I did look through tweaks and DIY for information but, if any of you that have changed panels, your tips for this would be appreciated.

 

[karma]

HI Brad,
I just recently changed the panels on my IIA's. It's really easy. Much easier to do than describe. Follow the directions that come with the new panels and you will be alright. Removing the old panels is best done with 2 people but I did mine solo.

Nice buy. Good luck.

Sparky

 

[Beat_Dominator]

Those CLSIIs on audiogon are a steal! Shipping will hurt the bargfain but they're a great price for such a capable speaker.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Brad,

I have CLSiiz's and I have changed the panels and as Sparky says it is not hard. The instructions are pretty good. I actually re-wrote the instructions for Jim Power and sent it to him so I do not know if you will get the original or the ones I wrote.

If you need any help let me know.

As far as the original pair I would wash them and let them dry for a day or so.
Try them and see they may surprise you on how well they sound. I still have my original panels and I would love to get rid of them since they are sitting in a box in the living room not doing anything.

Jeff

 

[Brad225]

Jeff,
There must be quite a few people that have extra panels.

The panels might not be perfect for 2 channel but I am surprised with all of the electrical expertise of the forums no one has tried to make their own transformers/power supply and use them for center channel or surround speakers for HT.

Are the just to complicated to even think about. I have looked inside and it is beyond me but other people build amps and other devices.

Home theater with 7 CLSs? Someone has to be intrigued by the possibility.

When I change panels I will be in touch.

Thanks

 

[nsgarch]

Brad, I'm just curious,

what does a new set of panels cost + shipping, these days?

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Mine cost $890 plus shipping about 18 months ago. Shipping was about $25 from ML to the West Coast.

Jeff

 

[karma]

HI,
I payed $900 2 months ago. A bargain, don't you think? Really, you should contact ML for the best information.

Oh, and yes, I too have 2 perfectly good 15 year old panels stored in the garage. Do you think they will have collector value?

Sparky

 

[Brad225]

Jeff is correct. They are still $890 plus shipping approx. $25.

They must sell quite a few of the cls panels. When I was speaking with the service dept. at ML the person was looking through the all the orders to be shipped out this week to see if the were going to need make more before mine would be shipped. I was in luck and they should ship Friday. Probably get here to Tampa before the speakers do.

The more posts I read about CLSs the more I can't wait to listen to them.

My wife didn't even flinch (yet) when I told her I had found a pair. I had previously said they would be about $2500 for a used pair and they would be about the size of my old Accoustat model. We will see when they show up in the TV room.

It will be a bit of a creative squeeze, not because the room isn't big enough but a large cabinet I built for her to hide the TV and other components sets in the middle of the wall. The 2 channel equipment has now escaped from the cabinet under the reasoning that there would be to much heat plus they would not all fit. HT equipment remains in the cabinet.
The CLSs will probably have to set in front of the 2 equipment racks, not ideal but it's that or not at all until our new house is built. I will have to squeeze my Vandersteen 2w back in some where. That will probably illicit more discussion than the CLSs. It will be something like "so why do you need 3 of those sub things in the room." There will be a little eye rolling, a shake of the head, a smile and I know she will be thinking as she walks away "This is never going to end".

 

[Brad225]

Sparky,

If they should ever stop making them (which i doubt they will for quite a while) it will be like used vacuum tubes they will gain value as they get scarce.
Do you know if anyone has ever tried to replace the mylar themselves. It would be interesting to see if it could be done. I would thing the hardest part would be making a jig to stretch the mylar before sticking it to the new 2 sided tape on the back half of the sator.
I would think ML could also replace the mylar on existing panels for less money but it would be a nightmare keeping sators separate with name tags or serial # tracking. Maybe kind of like a core charge when you replace an alternator or clutch on your car. Send them back after you receive your new ones and receive a credit.
I realize they probably wouldn't do it if only from the organizational needs and potential concern with panel failure but it seems to bad there are a lot of perfectly good sator frames doing nothing.
When I ordered mine they said the were not clearspar but the same as original because the clearspar would not take the larger curve of the the CLS panels so most of the existing panels would still work.
Maybe this will be a new cottage industry for someone (though a small cottage) out there.

 

[ArneW]

Brad,

it *is* possible to rebuild the panels (replacing the mylar diaphragm). There is a german ELS manufacturer (DIS-Elektrostaten) who offers a rebuilding service for ML owners, see

http://www.dis-elektrostaten.de/content/logan.php

They charge EUR 399 per panel, which is similar to the panel replacement price quoted for ML. One has to keep in mind however that the german ML distributor charges a lot more for CLS panels than $ 900 (around three times as much, IIRC).

Arne

 

[Brad225]

Would any of the many CLS owners here tell me what the height of the bottom rail is? It looks to be about 10"-12".

Thanks

 

[Jeff Zaret]

do you mean the Stator?

 

[nsgarch]

Bottom wood rail on CLS

Would any of the many CLS owners here tell me what the height of the bottom rail is? It looks to be about 10"-12".

It's 8" But you should plan to buy a pair of Sound Anchor CLS stands. I've had my IIz's for 15 years, the stands for 2 years. The good news: amazing improvement in stage and midrange resolution.
The bad news: All the years I spent listening to them on the floor.

If I had the money, I'd buy every CLS owner in the club a pair, just so I could enjoy all the thankful, glowing emails I'd receive :angel:

 

[lugano]

The more posts I read about CLSs the more I can't wait to listen to them.

My wife didn't even flinch (yet) when I told her I had found a pair.

Best thing to do is:

1) install and position the speakers
2) bring wife in room, eyes covered
3) play 5 minutes of music
4) pick up wife's jaw from floor
5) give wife a double single malt
6) wait for the spirit to act
7) uncover wife's eyes and run out of the room

 

[Brad225]

CLS height

I am trying to decide how much to raise the CLS panels once I receive them.

Nsgarch suggested Sound Anchor stands that are 12" high. With that height I would be listening to the lower portion of the panel. The height to ear level in my listening level is about 36".

Should I be ideally be listening to the middle of the panel so the center would be 36" off the floor?

I thought I had read about people putting concrete blocks under their speakers to achieve an ideal height. That would be about 8'. Though I would probably go a little nicer than concrete blocks. I hope blocks and boards for shelving is not going to reappear in my life.


I know I will have to play with the height some but if I get them set up with some shims and blocks or what ever under them I won't want to switch back to the sl3s while I am making changes to the speakers.

Any thoughts?

 

[lugano]

I am trying to decide how much to raise the CLS panels once I receive them. Any thoughts?

Try to listen to them as Martin Logan intended, i.e. not raised at all. Most CLS users - me included - are happy with such a setup.

 

[DTB300]

Try them as Lugano suggested - on the floor, and also try them with the Center Spar at your sitting Ear Height - speakers raised. Play with both positions (floor and raised) and then tilted back and forward to see all the possibilities.

Remember for testing you can use whatever is available to you in order to raise the panels.

In the end only you can decide which you like better.

Dan

 

[nsgarch]

CLS height, and Stands vs. Blocks:

First, for lugano and others, I will repeat myself:

You should plan to buy a pair of Sound Anchor CLS stands. I've had my IIz's for 15 years, the stands for 2 years. The good news: amazing improvement in stage and midrange resolution. The bad news: All the years I spent listening to them on the floor. If I had the money, I'd buy every CLS owner in the club a pair, just so I could enjoy all the thankful, glowing emails I'd receive :angel:

So.... I think you'd agree I've listened to my CLS's as "Martin Logan intended" for a sufficiently long time Add to that the fact that stands for these speakers appeared soon after the speakers were introduced in '88 . I quote from a bulletin sent to all CLS owners by Martin Logan, Feb. 12, 1992, and still in my files:

Co-developed by Martin-Logan and Arcici, the CLS stand will raise either your CLS I or II 8 to 12 inches above the floor and brace the back of the frame so it doesn't sway back and forth when it is playing. The result are tighter bass and much improved imaging. The retail price of this stand is $495.00 and is available through your Martin-Logan dealer or through Arcici Stands . . . . .

Arcici stands are no longer available, and the Sound Anchors are better constructed, and to my eye anyway, better looking. They are $500/pr. Also, a word about the back braces: If the top of the frame rocks even a half inch back and forth (which it can do, even with floor spikes) you are losing transient response and midrange/high frequency detail. So blocks alone won't fully do it for you.

As for the difference between seated ear height and center of panel height: On the floor, the center of the panel is at 32". So Brad, even if your very cushy sofa puts your ears at only 36" (and we don't know how short/tall you are) they are still 4" above the center of the panel. On Sound Anchor stands, the center of the panel is 44" above the floor. My Architectural Standards ergonometric guide puts a normal male ear when seated in a standard height computer chair at 46". My point is "on the floor" or "off the floor" the variations aren't significant and of course depend on your furniture. And "off the floor" works best for sitting and standing, to say nothing of the sonic improvements cited by Martin Logan themselves.

I hope this clears away any doubts anyone may have had :think: Good luck!

Neil

 

[Brad225]

By raising them 8" it would vertically be 16" to the bottom of the panel and
40" to the center not 36 as I previously stated.

At 16" it's about the same height as SL3s and Summits. The Odyssey, Quest and Monolith are higher.

I will take everyone's advice and listen on the floor for a while then drag in some blocks and try it. Concrete blocks always have such a high WAF.

Thanks