Catching flac (metadata)

[JimJupiter]

Over the last couple of weeks I started to back up my classical cd’s to flac. Problem is that I’ve hit a snag when it comes to tagging my collection with metadata. There is just much more information about a classical album you would want to search across in constructing a playlist than there is places where to store it. It’s just not readily apparent to me which is the most useful way to place which info where. Numerous sites across the web offer suggestions but they’re all idiosyncratic. Since there doesn’t seem to be one correct method, it seemed like a good idea to enquire of the folks on the board how they have dealt with this particular problem? This is a tedious process and not one I want to repeat (ripping a single cd at a time).

So,
How ‘bout it? What has worked for you or what would you advise? Do you include the artist in the track title? What do you do for works that span across several tracks? Do you rip to a single file and use a cue sheet? Have you found one way is better or worse when you move your music to an mp3 player, a music server, or iTunes?

I’m feeling a little stumped and unsure how to proceed... Any guidance you can give would be appreciated.

JJ.

 

[sleepysurf]

Tagging, especially for Classical music, is still a major PIA. I have ripped most of my non-classical library to FLAC with EAC, but have held off on most of my Classical rips while searching for the best tagging solution. I'm now thinking that dBPowerAmp might be it (http://www.dbpoweramp.com).
The annual $24 subscription for their PerfectMeta™ tags (accesses AMG, GD3, MusicBrainz and freedb simultaneously), also includes album art downloads, and is sounding better every day. I'm going to check out the free trial next week, when I have a few days off.

 

[Burke]

Sleepy,

I switched from EAC, to dbPowerAmp in the fall. Definitely do it the meta-data and cover art are more than worth the cost. Plus I find the application easier to run.

I also agree that classical is much harder to get the meta data right. The biggest problem is checking everything before the rip starts, much easier to straighten out at the start then after the fact. However you can use Tag&Rename to correct or add meta data after the ripping is complete and across and entire album at once, So you do not have to re-rip just to redo the meta data.

 

[amey01]

If tagging is a PIA - classical tagging is that x100.

My tagging is a bit of a mess - and one day I'll clean it up. I learnt the hard way, so here are a few things I've learnt. Since there is no right or wrong, here are a few things that I do...

** Start ripping your non-classical first - that will get you into the hang of what you want to do.

** BE CONSISTENT - the last thing you want is "Mozart", "W.A. Mozart", Wolfgang Mozart", "WA Mozart", "Mozart, W", "Mozart (1756-1791)" all in your collection. Equally annoying is "Mozart" and then "J.S. Bach" - so decide on a standard and stick to it. Even something simple like "Bach, JS" and "Bach, J.S." can be frustrating when you're looking for something you want under one when it is actually under the other.

** Think about how you use your classical collection. Do you really need all that extra information stored in your database? Something like "Artist" for classical is a moot point anyway - sometimes it's the conductor, sometimes it's the orchestra, sometimes it's the soloist, sometimes it's the leader of the first violin. There is no standard so my advice is to forget it altogether. To this end, I've had much luck using "Artist" and "Album" for the two things that DO matter in classical music (since most databases are set up this way for primary searching/use) - that is Artist = Composer and Album = Piece/work. Track of course = Track/movement. If you want to add additional information for searching (such as "Sydney Symphony Orchestra conducted by Edo DeWaart"), then do so in one of these fields also (such as "Artist").

Good luck.

** Again - BE CONSISTENT!!

 

[JimJupiter]

Tagging, especially for Classical music, is still a major PIA. I have ripped most of my non-classical library to FLAC with EAC, but have held off on most of my Classical rips while searching for the best tagging solution. I'm now thinking that dBPowerAmp might be it (http://www.dbpoweramp.com).
The annual $24 subscription for their PerfectMeta™ tags (accesses AMG, GD3, MusicBrainz and freedb simultaneously), also includes album art downloads, and is sounding better every day. I'm going to check out the free trial next week, when I have a few days off.

Thanks sleepysurf,

Please let me know how it works out. I'd be particularly interested in how consistent the metadata tags are for classical. I'm on a Mac myself but the classical metatags via iTunes are rarely consistent across multiple disks of a single work never mind across different albums. It's likely that I could borrow a friend's older laptop with XP to do the job, if it comes to that. I have used EAC in the past and liked it but at the time I was only ripping mp3's to trade/preview with friends and not archiving. dbPowerAmp looks promising.

JJ.

 

[JimJupiter]

Sleepy,

I also agree that classical is much harder to get the meta data right. The biggest problem is checking everything before the rip starts, much easier to straighten out at the start then after the fact.

Hello Burke,
Yes, I've already come to appreciate the need to check before ripping. iTunes just isn't cutting it for me; I might have found a possible combo for those of the mac persuasion: Max (ripper) and Tag (tagger) from sbooth.org that may parallel your suggestions.

JJ.

 

[JimJupiter]

If tagging is a PIA - classical tagging is that x100.

** Start ripping your non-classical first - that will get you into the hang of what you want to do.

x100: That's a little discouraging but I'm beginning to believe you. Yes, I thought about doing non-classical first. It's just that it works for me to tackle the hard stuff first.

** BE CONSISTENT

This is definitely going to be difficult given what I've seen from iTunes metadata so far. Inconsistency seems to be the rule rather than the exception. I foresee a long ordeal of manual entry and editing.

** Think about how you use your classical collection. Do you really need all that extra information stored in your database? Something like "Artist" for classical is a moot point anyway - sometimes it's the conductor, sometimes it's the orchestra, sometimes it's the soloist, sometimes it's the leader of the first violin. There is no standard so my advice is to forget it altogether. To this end, I've had much luck using "Artist" and "Album" for the two things that DO matter in classical music (since most databases are set up this way for primary searching/use) - that is Artist = Composer and Album = Piece/work. Track of course = Track/movement. If you want to add additional information for searching (such as "Sydney Symphony Orchestra conducted by Edo DeWaart"), then do so in one of these fields also (such as "Artist").

This is the crux of my concerns: sorting out an algorithm whereby I'll be able to store pertinent info and sort my collection using it. Flac allows a separate composer tag so I don't feel ready to abandon the "Artist" tag to an alternative use just yet. Ideally I would want to search via "Composer", "Artist", and especially particular work (but there is no such tag available under flac). So more thinking and planning is in order I suppose.

Good luck.
** Again - BE CONSISTENT!!

Thanks and thanks for your advice,

JJ.

 

[amey01]

it works for me to tackle the hard stuff first.

The only problem I can foresee with this is that you will learn a lot from the easy stuff. You may well change your mind once you get started! And if you do change your mind, rock/jazz is easier to re-tag.

I foresee a long ordeal of manual entry and editing.

Ahh - yes - you worked that one out!!!

This is the crux of my concerns: sorting out an algorithm whereby I'll be able to store pertinent info and sort my collection using it. Flac allows a separate composer tag so I don't feel ready to abandon the "Artist" tag to an alternative use just yet. Ideally I would want to search via "Composer", "Artist", and especially particular work (but there is no such tag available under flac). So more thinking and planning is in order I suppose.

I know there are often "Composer" tags, but most appliances and software (such as iPods or iTunes) are set up primarily to use the Artist/Album model. That's why I've found it a lot easier if you just succumb to that and work around it. Things like the Squeezebox allow you to search for music too - so you can search for a particular artist if you include it somewhere in the tags - even if it is not sorted that way. But you'll need to check with whatever you are using to verify.

This approach is certainly not for everyone, so I'm not trying to change your mind - just point out my reasoning. If you disagree, please do!

Oh, another thing too - be consistent with your genres! I've got classical listed as "Classical", "Baroque", "Orchestral", "Chamber", etc. My suggestion would be to simply make everything "Classical" unless you have an extensive collection and want to search/sort by more specific genres.

 

[JimJupiter]

This approach is certainly not for everyone, so I'm not trying to change your mind - just point out my reasoning. If you disagree, please do!

No problems on this end. Point of fact is that having weighed what you have suggested, I'm considering using the "Album" tag to store info about the general work (the symphony, concerto, suite, etc...) of which an individual track is part. So you've already helped.

I know there are often "Composer" tags, but most appliances and software (such as iPods or iTunes) are set up primarily to use the Artist/Album model.

Quite right and a sticking point as one of the things I wanted to do was to listen to tunes on an iPod while taking walks. I think whatever I go with will engender some iTunes compatibility issues but I'm already looking for alternatives to that program.

Things like the Squeezebox allow you to search for music too - so you can search for a particular artist if you include it somewhere in the tags - even if it is not sorted that way.

Now that's something worth knowing especially as at some point I intend to get a Squeezebox or something like it.

Thanks amey,:bowdown:

JJ.

 

[sleepysurf]

Thanks sleepysurf,

Please let me know how it works out. I'd be particularly interested in how consistent the metadata tags are for classical. I'm on a Mac myself but the classical metatags via iTunes are rarely consistent across multiple disks of a single work never mind across different albums. It's likely that I could borrow a friend's older laptop with XP to do the job, if it comes to that. I have used EAC in the past and liked it but at the time I was only ripping mp3's to trade/preview with friends and not archiving. dbPowerAmp looks promising.

JJ.

Well, I finally got around to trying dbpoweramp. Thus far, it's impressive, especially for ease of use. It incorporates FLAC and AccurateRip seamlessly, and has had no problem handling scratched CD's. It finds the right cover album art >80% of the time (at least for non-classical music), and the PerfectMeta tagging has worked well, even for obscure titles that EAC couldn't identify via FreedB. I still need to tweak it's tagging for Classical, as, by default, it lists Conductor and Symphony as Artist, which I'm not sure is ideal. However, the PerfectMeta annual subscription is only $5, so this is definitely a "keeper". My only concern is whether it will be fully compatible with Windows 7, so I'll email "Spoon" (developer) about that.