Car audio choices on a budget?

[Tube60]

Hi all
Here's my conundrum:
With the changes in the economy, I'll be hanging on to my Lexus for the forseeable future. It has the Nakamichi factory sound system, which is pretty well good for Kenny G. and that's about it. I listen to a very wide range of music, so I need to cover all my bases! Looking around in various audio places for a head unit, I've found that what I can afford, well, looks too, umm, ghetto to me (read tons of chrome & useless bling), and what would look right in my Lexus I can't afford. I'm considering a semi-DIY approach, say with an iPod for music storage, and a kit-sourced preamp from Velleman, or similar, upgraded with gourmet resistors and caps. I have access to high-voltage switching supplies, so I could also do a tube preamp, and certainly a tube main amp (already done that). I've looked around on the 'net, but DIY car audio seems limited to self installation, but not the hardware or creative approaches! Speakers & amps I've pretty much got a handle on.
So if y'all could offer some suggestions from any angle, I'd really appreciate it!:music:

 

[amey01]

Spend the money on a faster car so you can get home sooner and enjoy real hi-fi for a longer period of time.

Sorry - that's just my way of saying I'm not into car audio and I don't have anything constructive to add.

 

[Tube60]

Sorry - that's just my way of saying I'm not into car audio and I don't have anything constructive to add.

Okay, had one from the peanut gallery. Any real opinions?:ROFL:
I concur with your logic. But I can't afford a new car! And if I were into car audio more seriously, I would've done something about it by now!

 

[jtwrace]

Okay, had one from the peanut gallery. Any real opinions?:ROFL:
I concur with your logic. But I can't afford a new car! And if I were into car audio more seriously, I would've done something about it by now!

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/mobile-audio-discussion/

 

[Tube60]

Thanks for the link!
There are some good threads on discussion there, and many reflect what I've been noticing myself, even though I'm not a car audio buff. I might just go for the iPod / diy idea. Hmmm.... I've already got a super compact preamp out of an old Sears console that's dirt simple.... modern attenuator, caps, resistors, and only 2 12ax7s..... :music:

 

[Audiophiliac]

Look at Exile Car Audio (www.exileaudio.com). The guys that run the show there are good people. They are old higher ups from Phoenix Gold back when high end car audio was big...think early 90s. Very reasonable prices. If you do not have a local dealer, they will sell direct at very good prices. The first amp I got had an issue with a loose RCA jack. One phone call and a new one was expidited to me as an advanced exchange.

The Xtec65 speakers are awesome! I am running those with their 800.4 amp (also powering subs). Sounds phenomenal.

 

[Tube60]

Look at Exile Car Audio

Thanks for that! I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

 

[gordonmenninger]

Now when you said DIY you did not mean building your own head unit did you??? Here is what I did and what I would do: replace stock unit with one of the new Alpine double din units (as I did) - model 505. It has Ipod, connectivity, DVD, Dolby digital, DTS, etc... Replace all the crappy stock speakers with MB Quart, have a custom box built with the ultimate sub - JLw7 13.5" driver, power the sub with the JL 1,000 watt amp, and get another nice amp for fronts and rear door speakers, and finish every thing off with the "epicenter" from Audio Control - works wonders for the bass... This is the setup I have. The sound is out of this world! Do not keep any stock speakers or head unit - when they take out the stock speakers and you see the little crappy paper cones with tiny magnets they use, it is really sickening!
enjoy!

 

[gordonmenninger]

oops, well I did not see the "on a budget " part!

 

[Tube60]

oops, well I did not see the "on a budget " part!

But thanks for your enthusiasm. Sounds like you've got a great system! A double-DIN head unit won't fit in my car's console anyway. For now I'm sticking with the iPod based system, with a DIY head unit, perhaps, but that's more a back-burner idea at best. Technically it wouldn't be hard to do. I've also thought about doing a hard-drive based setup, but I wouldn't know where to start as far as a user interface is concerned. Buttons? Touch-screen graphic interface? Dunno. I want to do this not only for budgetary reasons, but also for the satisfaction of being my own creation.

 

[Dreamer]

I once had a conversation with a NASA acoustical engineer (the guy has a Ph.D. in acoustics!) and he told me that if he were tasked to design the WORST possible acoustical environment for trying to set up a sound playback system in, it would look exactly like the inside of an automobile, and would have all the inherant sonic and structural problems (road noise, subsonic rumble, unstable, flexing panels). He said that he coul dnot in his wildest imagination, think up a more unsuitable structure for setting up a "high end audio system" than inside an automobile, with the possible exception of the Space Shuttle during launch.

He was of the belief that "hi-fi" and "car audio" were mutually exclusive terms, and felt that the REAL reason why companies like Levinson, McIntosh, Nakamichi, Bose, et.al., got into the car audio market was because they realised there were tens of thousands more dollars they could milk from people who were more interested in the nameplates on their dashboards than the actually sound of their systems...

Then again, he was a McIntosh/Spectral guy, and so was genetically predisposed toward hatred toward the audio industry, and "label chasers" in the audiophile community...

However, from the many examples I've heard in "high-end car audio" I tend to agree.

Treat your car with Dynamat and good spray-on marine-grade undercoating. Put in a dedicated battery and bank of big caps to run the sound system, on an isolator of some sort. Make sure all your connections are tight. That's REALLY all you can do. Expensive audio components in a car serve only 2 real purposed--ego stroking of the owner, and crack-head attractant.

If you've got a high-end car, the "stock" system is probably as good as you'll really ever be able to appreciate in the environment of a car anyway. Unless you're hanging acoustic panels on the inside of all the windows, have figured out some way to completely alleviate road noise, engine noise, and body flex, and have changed your driving position to be in the center of the front seat, car audio--even the uber-high-end stuff--is ALL essentially shite compared to even a modest home system.

You're going to get better sound wearing a good set of headphones using an iPod and portable can amp while you drive, in all honesty...

--Richard

 

[amey01]

I once had a conversation with a NASA acoustical engineer (the guy has a Ph.D. in acoustics!) and he told me that if he were tasked to design the WORST possible acoustical environment for trying to set up a sound playback system in, it would look exactly like the inside of an automobile, and would have all the inherant sonic and structural problems (road noise, subsonic rumble, unstable, flexing panels). He said that he coul dnot in his wildest imagination, think up a more unsuitable structure for setting up a "high end audio system" than inside an automobile, with the possible exception of the Space Shuttle during launch.

He was of the belief that "hi-fi" and "car audio" were mutually exclusive terms, and felt that the REAL reason why companies like Levinson, McIntosh, Nakamichi, Bose, et.al., got into the car audio market was because they realised there were tens of thousands more dollars they could milk from people who were more interested in the nameplates on their dashboards than the actually sound of their systems...

Then again, he was a McIntosh/Spectral guy, and so was genetically predisposed toward hatred toward the audio industry, and "label chasers" in the audiophile community...

However, from the many examples I've heard in "high-end car audio" I tend to agree.

Treat your car with Dynamat and good spray-on marine-grade undercoating. Put in a dedicated battery and bank of big caps to run the sound system, on an isolator of some sort. Make sure all your connections are tight. That's REALLY all you can do. Expensive audio components in a car serve only 2 real purposed--ego stroking of the owner, and crack-head attractant.

If you've got a high-end car, the "stock" system is probably as good as you'll really ever be able to appreciate in the environment of a car anyway. Unless you're hanging acoustic panels on the inside of all the windows, have figured out some way to completely alleviate road noise, engine noise, and body flex, and have changed your driving position to be in the center of the front seat, car audio--even the uber-high-end stuff--is ALL essentially shite compared to even a modest home system.

You're going to get better sound wearing a good set of headphones using an iPod and portable can amp while you drive, in all honesty...

--Richard

We're on a roll lately, aren't we? In this case I wholeheartedly agree.

Only problem is, some people spend lots of time in cars and with the absence of anything else to do (can't watch TV, can't read a book, can't surf the 'net etc) listening to music is the only option. And I also think Mac/Levinson/Bose etc get into car audio to sell more home audio to people that would otherwise never have heard of the brand. It's a good advertisment. Do you think they'd do all the car gear and NOT put their name on it? I don't think so.

Then again, I guess that's why I said better to spend the money on a faster and get home to your real system sooner! Car audio is a sonic abberation!

Oh, and there's always talkback radio - you don't need a high-end car system for that!

 

[Tube60]

Only problem is, some people spend lots of time in cars and with the absence of anything else to do (can't watch TV, can't read a book, can't surf the 'net etc) listening to music is the only option.

I spend a lot of time in my car since family and friends are scattered all over the place here in the west. Fortunately my car (Lexus LS) is really really quiet inside, and the stock speaker locations do provide an acceptable soundstage, all drawbacks considered. The factory system in general just sounds awful, especially since I acquired my Sequels, and while I can't duplicate THAT good a sound in my car, I know I could reach an acceptable compromise that's noticeably better than what's there now. Since starting this thread, I'm leaning heavily in the direction of doing my own preamp & amp. I've done it before, with a tube amp I built for the car before this one, hooked up to a McIntosh MX-401 tuner / CD preamp. Sounded awesome! :music:
I just remembered I still have the amp I built...... Might be time to make a new switching supply for it & a preamp!:rocker:

 

[gordonmenninger]

now if only Martin Logan would build some nice panels for use in cars, I would be all over that one!:rocker:

I agree with above posts, but with good aftermarket components, you can get surprisingly decent sound in a car if using the right speakers, amps, processors, etc. No, it will never duplicate my full ML setup at home for sure, but it sure as heck is 100 times better than listeining to the stock head unit or headphones (in my car at least).

It really is a crime what junk the automakers install in premium cars with "premium sound". unbelievable - don't even get me started!

 

[Tube60]

It really is a crime what junk the automakers install in premium cars with "premium sound". unbelievable - don't even get me started!

Oh go on...... I dare ya!:ROFL:

 

[amey01]

I'm leaning heavily in the direction of doing my own preamp & amp. I've done it before, with a tube amp I built for the car before this one, hooked up to a McIntosh MX-401 tuner / CD preamp. Sounded awesome!

You could always use a 240v inverter in your car and then run some real hi-fi components!!

 

[Tube60]

You could always use a 240v inverter in your car and then run some real hi-fi components!!

Actually a 120v. inverter would be what I'd need over here. A 240v one would do strange things to a 120v. transformer.........
Actually I'd considered doing that, but I would need a true sine wave device. I've tried square wave cheapies but the transformers on the amps I tried growled loudly; current spikes associated with the sharp cut-offs of the waveform?

 

[JMAUSGP]

I can't wait to see the look on the service managers face when you take the Lexus in for service. " Ah, mr tube60, you replaced the audio system with what???", "Um, do you want us to replace the tubes every 10,000 miles??" I had my LS pinstriped and when I took it in for service you would have thought I had done something egregious to Lexus.

 

[amey01]

Actually a 120v. inverter would be what I'd need over here. A 240v one would do strange things to a 120v. transformer.........
Actually I'd considered doing that, but I would need a true sine wave device. I've tried square wave cheapies but the transformers on the amps I tried growled loudly; current spikes associated with the sharp cut-offs of the waveform?

When you've got 120v (or 240!!) your options are endless......you could also run a power regenerator like the PS Audio Power Plant!

 

[Tube60]

I can't wait to see the look on the service managers face when you take the Lexus in for service.

:ROFL: They'd probably yank the tubes out of the chassis in a panic and burn their fingers.....
The service manager at my nearest dealer told me to put on a 3" cat-back dual exhaust with no mufflers because "They're loud but sound great that way."
I go to an independent shop......