User211
Well-known member
She's all yours, Joe!:ROFL:
it seems as though any person or group can get together and if they cry hard enough a new stupid law will pass that "protects" everybody and this is now called DEMOCRACY !
Oh my gosh! You mean citizens are actually banding together and lobbying their government to pass laws that they feel are of benefit, and government is actually responding to the people and passing these laws? Horrors! That's not democracy. It's . . . it's . . . well I don't know what it is, but it can't possibly be democracy.
Seriously, though. The more our population grows and the more crowded we get, the more need there is for regulation since people can't seem to regulate themselves. Personally, I am thrilled that I don't have to reek of cigarette smoke anymore every time I go to a restaurant. So I see some of the tobacco laws as having benefits. If I want a good cigar, I have no problem going outside to smoke it and try to do so in a location that won't bother other people. Of course, it's hard to buy American and still get a good cigar. (Bet you didn't think I could bring this back around to the original topic. )
it seems as though any person or group can get together and if they cry hard enough a new stupid law will pass that "protects" everybody and this is now called DEMOCRACY !
Hi Steve,
I actually consider myself a reasonably intelligent, well informed person with a professional career spanning some 40 years.
I'm glad to now be enlightened to the fact this is not true and that I am now "lost".
Even though you have no clue as to who I am, I do appreciate your profound insight into my character.
Gordon
PS: And yes I do smoke on occasion and totally understand why laws have been passed prohibiting this activity in enclosed "public" spaces.
If I want a good cigar, I have no problem going outside to smoke it and try to do so in a location that won't bother other people. Of course, it's hard to buy American and still get a good cigar. (Bet you didn't think I could bring this back around to the original topic. )
A democracy is majority rule and is destructive of liberty because there is no law to prevent the majority from trampling on individual rights. (as you have experienced in not being able to smoke in your own place of business) Whatever the majority says goes!
this all boils down to one thing rich and that's called tolerance I would tolerate you so that you could remain free in return you could tolerate me that's the whole problem with our society is that nobody is willing to tolerate anything anymore hence the need for all of these petty laws.
My favorite quotation about "democracy" is this:
"A Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch."
How much should we tolerate, Fish? If your company is poisoning my drinking water, should I tolerate that? If you wish to ride your A.T.V. across my property every morning at 6:00 a.m., should I tolerate that? It isn't so much about tolerance as it is about people being willing to take personal responsibility for their actions and the effects those actions have on others, and I am afraid that concept disappeared in this country a long time ago. When others have no care for your rights, it is hard to tolerate them.
Now I do understand your point that government continues to grow and feed on itself and regulations can get out of control. But again, saying this amounts to a lack of freedom is short-sighted in my opinion. We still have more basic freedoms in this country today than in many countries throughout the world and throughout history.
You left off the second part:
"Liberty" is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
It appears that you have a reasonable point Rich.although I will not agree with all of your ideas I respect your point of view.
I think that I can understand your idea that we here in the USA are losing all our rights. Since you live in IL, you probably HAVE lost a lot of rights that some of us in the more "independent-minded" states have tenaciously held on to. Illinois has some of the most egregiously unconstitutional firearms laws in the Union. When our current President says that he wants to move toward a Federal system of firearms laws based on the "Chicago Model", it doesn't inspire much confidence in those of us who actually BELIEVE in the Constitution.
Illinois does not issue Concealed Carry permits to civilians, and Chicago is nearly as restrictive as NYC or DC when it comes to purchasing and possessing a firearm, and look at the violent crime record in Chicago. They had 510 murders and over 19,000 aggravated assaults in 2008.
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Chicago&state=IL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago
For some strange reason, Chicago does not report forcible rapes in their crime statistics in a manner that complies with the FBI's or the NIJ's methods of compiling crime statistics.. I imagine that is because they are so high they are ashamed to admit it. By some researcher's calculations, 2400 out of every 100,000 females in the Chicago Metro area have been sexually assaulted in the last year.
http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/OneVoteOneBrick/blog/&blogId=3963
So in other words, if you are a woman (and especially if you are a minority woman) in Chicago, you have a higher probability of getting sexually assaulted, than you do of seeing the Cubbies get into the playoffs...
If the "Chicago Model" is what the current Feds want to move toward, we're looking at a future with a LOT less freedom, security, and middle-class wealth in the US, and a LOT more crime, graft, and corruption, even though it is difficult to imagine more graft and corruption than the last administration gave us...
But yeah, as screwed up as things are politically here in the USA, we've still got it better than just about any other country on the planet. I mean, England doesn't even have a legal guarantee for a Free Press or Free Speech in their constitution. And an analogue to our 2nd Amendment--ANYWHERE in the world--forget about it...
I guarantee you our press is free. They spend their lives spying on politicians, bugging their phones, revealing extortionate expense claims, and just generally digging up dirt - which they publish with gay abandon.
Cameras aside, I believe the UK is a safer place to live than the States. Relative safety and freedom from crime is a real civil liberty that shouldn't be underestimated.
And your gun laws seem almost impossible for your average Brit to understand or even sympathise with.
Enter your email address to join: