Buying American made goods

[Gordon]

They are damn hard to find!

With so many people in need of work here, we have decided to try and buy American whenever possible. We won't buy an inferior product to accomplish this goal but will look very hard at the country of origin.

My wife decided she wants new pots and pans. Last set she bought (20 years ago) were on their last legs. Revere Ware that lasted through military moves and four kids. So she decides on some line called All-Clad. She had thought they were made in the USA based on her research.

The pots and pans are made in the USA but the lids are of course made in China and she did not find this out until she opened the box at home. While the quality is equal to the pots and pans, why can't we seem to make anything without China having their fingers in it?

This was not an inexpensive set. A few more dollars for American made lids would not have killed the deal. As a matter of fact, it could have a couple people working right now.

I'm off my soap box. I just wish we could buy things made here and employ people.

Gordon

 

[FISH_MAN]

we have gotten into bed with the evil empire as far as I am concerned.we need to wake up and remember who we are dealing with. lets bring the market back here where it belongs the Chinese do not have the greater good of our nation in there best interest so why do biz with them its just not good for us.I would rather pay a little more fore something and have it be made by my countryman if I cannot afford to by this new item then perhaps I should wait until I can if possible but as stated before we really have almost no option now.

 

[Rich]

This issue is much more complicated than it seems. A few points:

A lot of manufacturing businesses in the US went under because we stopped allowing them to pollute our environment. Other countries aren't so stringent about whether their drinking water is poisonous, etc. Something to think about. Personally, I would prefer to have clean air and water than a few low-paying, high-polluting manufacturing jobs.

Also, as Americans have become more and more prosperous, fewer of us are willing to work in the dirty, sweaty, low-paying manufacturing jobs. Between a lack of skilled labor, and the labor that is skilled forming unions and demanding more pay and benefits, we have pretty much run manufacturing out of this country. And if you go and look in some of the manufacturing companies that remain, you would be hard-pressed to find someone who looks "American" doing the jobs. They are Hispanic or Asian immigrants in large part.

So it is one thing to say you want to "buy American" but are Americans willing to make the necessary sacrifices to keep manufacturing jobs in this country? I'm not so sure that we are.

Also, don't forget that a lot of American companies survive because they can get labor done cheaper overseas. They can get parts made overseas, and put together the final product here. And many companies and farmers in America make a killing selling their products overseas. So I don't think complete protectionism is the answer. But there is no question that the trade deficit with certain countries is way out of whack and needs to be addressed somehow.

Also, Fish, the language that you use toward China is the same language I remember older folks using against Japan in the 70's when Toyota's first started selling like hotcakes here. But now, look around the country. In my state alone, we have auto plants manufacturing Mercedes, Honda, Hyundai, and numerous other "foreign" car brands. So lets realize that it works both ways and protectionism is not going to solve the problems that exist.

That's all for now. I have a 6:00 p.m. dinner reservation to meet up with MiTT and Twich (Tim and Dave) from this forum. Looking forward to seeing them after a couple of years.

 

[Gordon]

Rich, I agree with almost everything you say. I'm also certain that right now there are plenty of Americans willing to make lids for pots and pans for 10-15 dollars an hour.

I honestly believe if enough manufacturers brought their plants back on shore, the people of the US would be willing to pay for that capability and the jobs it would create. Call me naive, but I do have faith in the US and its people.

The only reason "American" companies go to China and survive is to pay the shareholder. My company cut out our annual bonus of 1 weeks pay to boost the bottom line. For what? To add perhaps a penny or two to the shareholder's stake.

I'm certainly not taking aim at you. You have well thought out out opinions and I can respect that.

Enjoy your evening with Dave and Tim. Do you have a Designated Driver or is a cab in the cards?

Gordon

 

[Gordon]

Fish, I don't know if we jumped into bed with the evil empire or not. If the shoe was on the other foot we would not be in the position we are in today. Some poor decisions were made in the recent past by both R & D's. We as American's must demand US made products that can compete with the off shore labor. If it costs more, does it matter? We're paying for it one way or the other. I'd rather have the cash at home!

Gordon

 

[Audioseduction]

Try Health Craft for replacing you current cookware, it's made in the states. My wife has a boat load of it.

 

[amey01]

We've got the same issues here in Australia - and I'm sure the reasons are similar over there. Even our tourist koalas are "Made in China".

Rich has got some of the points about pollution and people not wanting to work in those jobs. But the regulation goes a lot further than that. Who in their right mind would manufacture in Australia (or the US) when you've got high wages, regulation, unfair dismissal, occupational health and safety, et al to deal with.

We're free countries, and at the end of the day - if someone can manufacture product "X" in the US for $300 or in China for $20, where do you think they're going to go?

 

[FISH_MAN]

We're free countries, and at the end of the day - if someone can manufacture product "X" in the US for $300 or in China for $20, where do you think they're going to go?

FREE ya ok you could dry that one out and use it to fertilize the lawn

 

[Len44]

Good points here. And Thanks Gordon for bringing all this up.

We've decided (as of a couple of years ago) that we would "Buy American" whenever "reasonably possible" and specifically not buy products made in China.

Good specific point too about the All Clad. Great cookware, but you're right, some of their accessories are made in China. We, too, would prefer to pay a bit more and have the products Made in the USA.

I think it is time (if not past time) for all of us to understand the consequences of our purchases of autos and other foreign goods. Autos, cookware, whatever. I'm now auto-shopping, and will certainly be taking a hard look at autos made in Country, especially those made by the Big (OK, make that semi-big) 3 domestic automobile manufactures...

Gotta get this Country turned around, somehow...

 

[RichTeer]

Interesting thread.

It's one thing to be proud of our countries, but one has to remember that potectionism isn't necessarily a good thing; how far do you take it? The world is a much bigger and open place now than it was in the past, and few countries can afford to be very introspective. Americans (and people of other nationalities, I'm not just picking on you guys!) can say "we're only gonna buy US stuff from now on", but what about exports?

If, as a result of this pro-US stance, other countries decided not to buy stuff imported from the US (as a result of their own "buy XXX" policy), US exports would suffer dramatically. To take it to an absurd degree, no new money would go into the US economy, and it will stagnate further.

And what about raw materials and power? If I understand the situation correctly, we (Canada and specifically BC) sell a lot of our surplus power to some US states, especially California. If the companies buying their power from Canada adopted a strict "US-only" policy, there'd be more rolling backouts in California than ever because their US suppliers don't have sufficient supply to meet with their demands.

At the end of the day, protectionism does no one any good, although it makes for excellent soap box fodder for politicians...

 

[RichTeer]

So it is one thing to say you want to "buy American" but are Americans willing to make the necessary sacrifices to keep manufacturing jobs in this country? I'm not so sure that we are.

Agreed. We North Americans seem to have an attitude of "I want to buy stuff as cheaply as possible" (which is why WalMart is the world's biggest company) coupled with "I want a high paying job with great benefits".

Those are pretty much mutually exclusive ideas. The cost of those high salaries and benefits must be paid for somehow by the end consumer, and that means higher prices. It stands to reason that something that costs $0.49 in labour to make in China will sell for less and/or at a greater profit than the same item made over here for $9.49 in labour.

In other words, we want our cake (low prices) and eat it too (high wages and benefits). And that can't happen if companies want to stay in business.

 

[RichTeer]

Rich, I agree with almost everything you say. I'm also certain that right now there are plenty of Americans willing to make lids for pots and pans for 10-15 dollars an hour.

You're probably very correct--but that's the problem. There are whordes of Chinese people willing to make those same lids for 10-15 CENTS an hour.

 

[amey01]

FREE ya ok you could dry that one out and use it to fertilize the lawn

 

[Rich]

If, as a result of this pro-US stance, other countries decided not to buy stuff imported from the US (as a result of their own "buy XXX" policy), US exports would suffer dramatically. To take it to an absurd degree, no new money would go into the US economy, and it will stagnate further.

Let's add another facet to this complex issue: suppose countries like China decided to stop buying American debt. Because of the deficits our country runs in our budget, the government must issue debt bonds to fund it. Otherwise, we would just have to print a lot more money, which would result in out of control price inflation (or actually balance our budget and pay off our deficits, which our government doesn't seem willing/capable of doing). The reason the system works at all is because other countries have enough confidence in our economy that they are willing to buy our debt. If they stopped doing so, and there was insufficient market for our debt, things would fall apart in this country on a scale never before seen. Like I said, it is not as simple as just saying: "we need to buy American."

And Fish, if you truly think we aren't "free" in this country, you should study some of the events occurring in Iran and Russia. We may live within the constraints of the government we created, but we enjoy more freedoms than many countries in the world.

 

[FISH_MAN]

And Fish, if you truly think we aren't "free" in this country, you should study some of the events occurring in Iran and Russia. We may live within the constraints of the government we created, but we enjoy more freedoms than many countries in the world.

that's great Rich we now have to compare ourselves to Russia and Iran to define our current version of freedom??? that really sucks! even though we may have created the government its now feeding itself and their is no way to stop it.I am sure our founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

 

[Rich]

What I am saying is that you are confusing inept politicians with a true dictatorial regime. The sweeping change in both Congress and the Presidential administration from a few years ago to now is pretty solid proof that we are indeed a free country. The incredible amount of press reporting in the news, cable tv, and on the uncensored internet is more proof of this.

You may feel powerless to change the way our government does business, but please don't dramatize that personal feeling of powerless by pretending you have no freedom. It just shows ignorance of the true meaning of the word. Truthfully, we have it within our power to change the way things work in this country. But it requires a unified majority of intelligent voters willing to put capable people in office, and it requires capable people willing to serve in public office. Unfortunately, the voting masses are not necessarily that intelligent, and few persons smart enough to do the job are stupid enough to run for public office. And this doesn't even begin to cover the problems induced by the partisanship of the two-party system and the blind followers of each party that refuse to consider the larger picture.

But again, these are problems of our own making. In many ways, our system is a victim of its own success. But to argue that the problems we have in this country amount to a lack of freedom. That is just silly. The examples I gave are of large countries where there exist a true lack of freedom.

 

[FISH_MAN]

What I am saying is that you are confusing inept politicians with a true dictatorial regime. The sweeping change in both Congress and the Presidential administration from a few years ago to now is pretty solid proof that we are indeed a free country. The incredible amount of press reporting in the news, cable tv, and on the uncensored internet is more proof of this.

You may feel powerless to change the way our government does business, but please don't dramatize that personal feeling of powerless by pretending you have no freedom. It just shows ignorance of the true meaning of the word. Truthfully, we have it within our power to change the way things work in this country. But it requires a unified majority of intelligent voters willing to put capable people in office, and it requires capable people willing to serve in public office. Unfortunately, the voting masses are not necessarily that intelligent, and few persons smart enough to do the job are stupid enough to run for public office. And this doesn't even begin to cover the problems induced by the partisanship of the two-party system and the blind followers of each party that refuse to consider the larger picture.

But again, these are problems of our own making. In many ways, our system is a victim of its own success. But to argue that the problems we have in this country amount to a lack of freedom. That is just silly. The examples I gave are of large countries where there exist a true lack of freedom.

think what you want rich but but I did not say no freedom now I think you are dramatizing my comments.the simple fact is that everyday that goes by our personal freedoms are becoming less and less and big Government is getting bigger and bigger and its causing our country to go down hill fast. the government has stuck its nose into every aspect of our lives and you have no problem with this?

 

[User211]

think what you want rich but but I did not say no freedom now I think you are dramatizing my comments.the simple fact is that everyday that goes by our personal freedoms are becoming less and less and big Government is getting bigger and bigger and its causing our country to go down hill fast. the government has stuck its nose into every aspect of our lives and you have no problem with this?

Sounds just like here Fish. Only here I believe it is even worse - we are probably the most spied on nation on the planet. Cameras everywhere. Literally!

 

[FISH_MAN]

Sounds just like here Fish. Only here I believe it is even worse - we are probably the most spied on nation on the planet. Cameras everywhere. Literally!

yeah I know and its going to get worse. just remember that the government is here to protect you from yourself its logic is undeniable!

 

[JMAUSGP]

Yes Justin, but without all the cameras how would you find the next Susan Boyle?