Joey_V
Well-known member
Dang.. now THAT'S an audiophile! 4 years worth of payments for a preamp? Nothing is more indicative of the audiophile in you, Tony!
Joey
Another upgrade.... tube rolling!
- Thread starter Joey_V
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Dang.. now THAT'S an audiophile! 4 years worth of payments for a preamp? Nothing is more indicative of the audiophile in you, Tony!
Joey
Joey_V
Well-known member
Joey, that's just foreplay...
to VYNIL
That's the thing man.... I've been thinking that I SHOULDVE gotten the Cary 98P instead of the Cary 98L, which is without the phonostage! Dang it!! I've been thinking... this is how things will go:
1. Looking for a new DAC to improve on the Squeezbox! As good as it is, I heard what an average-ish tubed CDP did for my system this weekend, and the difference was definitely there in the focus! So, it's back to the drawing board as I need to upgrade the source.
2. THEN, I can either go with something like a powerplant premier to regenerate the AC OR go with a TT of some sort! If I do go for a TT, I'm going to need to get some sort of a phonostage OR send my 98 for an upgrade to phonostage status (or sell the 98L and get a 98P)!
Then quit.
Joey
That's what we all say!
MC 275 Mk IV -- tube rolling results
But first, I just got the following email from a friend with a new Mk IV (driving Vantages) who had just tried a few NOS 12AX and 12AT tubes I mailed him (he knows who he is ;--): Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">WOW, I was not prepared for what I was hearing, the first thing that came to my mind was"snap" the music came at me with an energy that was not there before. I soon realize that the music was a lot more dynamic. Meaning there was more treble energy yet still maintain a quality that was silky smooth. Yes there was more detail and nuances that was not previous heard. I wanted to go through my favorite recordings to hear what I have been missing. There is further separation between instruments with ample amounts of air that only enhances the listening experience. In other words I like it, I will listen more tonight and tell you about the improvements. I can see why tube rolling can be fun </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I've done some extensive listening/rolling, and have included friends and neighbors in the project -- some with even better hearing than I. Here are my/our conclusions from tubes (including the stock tubes) actually auditioned so far. All twin triode tubes (AX's and AT's) had matched triodes. All pairs of tubes (AT's and KT88's) were matched as well:
12AX7
RCA -- 1957 smoothplate, blackplate, longplate (new, tested over 100%)
Amperex -- Orange Globe, made in Harleen Holland (tested 95%)
Telefunken -- Smoothplate, greyplate (tested 90%)
Mullard -- not included (yet)
12AT7
RCA -- 1957 ribbed, greyplate (new, tested over 100%)
Amperex -- not included (yet)
Telefunken -- ribbed, greyplate (new, tested over 100%)
Mullard -- tried, but not fully A-B'd
KT88
Penta Labs -- KT88SC, new matched quad, (tested over 100%)
GE UK -- NOS: GEC, Genalex, Gold Lion/Monarch (not yet, maybe one day soon if I'm lucky)
Tube groups were rotated in all possible (at this time) combinations, using the Diane Schure/Count Basie Orch. GRP-LP, Track: "Travelin' Light". (My system link is below.) It was fun. Tedious, but fun! There were some combos that were very close sonically, but the unanimous, winning configuration (after many, many "let me hear that agains") was:
12AX7: RCA -- 1957 smoothplate, blackplate, longplate
12AT7: Telefunken -- ribbed, greyplate
KT-88: Penta Labs -- KT88SC, solid plate, 3-getter
Better than a MC275 MKIV, with stock tubes, out of the box? You have absolutely NO IDEA !! If you want to give it a try, this will save you some time and money; at the very least, give you an excellent place to start
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
But first, I just got the following email from a friend with a new Mk IV (driving Vantages) who had just tried a few NOS 12AX and 12AT tubes I mailed him (he knows who he is ;--): Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">WOW, I was not prepared for what I was hearing, the first thing that came to my mind was"snap" the music came at me with an energy that was not there before. I soon realize that the music was a lot more dynamic. Meaning there was more treble energy yet still maintain a quality that was silky smooth. Yes there was more detail and nuances that was not previous heard. I wanted to go through my favorite recordings to hear what I have been missing. There is further separation between instruments with ample amounts of air that only enhances the listening experience. In other words I like it, I will listen more tonight and tell you about the improvements. I can see why tube rolling can be fun </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I've done some extensive listening/rolling, and have included friends and neighbors in the project -- some with even better hearing than I. Here are my/our conclusions from tubes (including the stock tubes) actually auditioned so far. All twin triode tubes (AX's and AT's) had matched triodes. All pairs of tubes (AT's and KT88's) were matched as well:
12AX7
RCA -- 1957 smoothplate, blackplate, longplate (new, tested over 100%)
Amperex -- Orange Globe, made in Harleen Holland (tested 95%)
Telefunken -- Smoothplate, greyplate (tested 90%)
Mullard -- not included (yet)
12AT7
RCA -- 1957 ribbed, greyplate (new, tested over 100%)
Amperex -- not included (yet)
Telefunken -- ribbed, greyplate (new, tested over 100%)
Mullard -- tried, but not fully A-B'd
KT88
Penta Labs -- KT88SC, new matched quad, (tested over 100%)
GE UK -- NOS: GEC, Genalex, Gold Lion/Monarch (not yet, maybe one day soon if I'm lucky)
Tube groups were rotated in all possible (at this time) combinations, using the Diane Schure/Count Basie Orch. GRP-LP, Track: "Travelin' Light". (My system link is below.) It was fun. Tedious, but fun! There were some combos that were very close sonically, but the unanimous, winning configuration (after many, many "let me hear that agains") was:
12AX7: RCA -- 1957 smoothplate, blackplate, longplate
12AT7: Telefunken -- ribbed, greyplate
KT-88: Penta Labs -- KT88SC, solid plate, 3-getter
Better than a MC275 MKIV, with stock tubes, out of the box? You have absolutely NO IDEA !! If you want to give it a try, this will save you some time and money; at the very least, give you an excellent place to start
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
Watford Valves
I also upgraded my valves (6922) to a product by Watford Valves they are cryo valves here is some text on the treatment.
I found a massive improvment in mid and Hf i feel it was great upgrade to my pre amp.
"DEEP CYROGENTIC TREATMENT"
The process involves taking the vacuum tubes and freezing them down to -312 f and soaking these for a minimum of 12 hours. Then the temp is held at this low level for 24 hours. The vacuum tubes are then slowly brought up to normal levels over the next 12 hours.
Metals respond very well to deep cryogenic process. The reasons are as follows. During the cooling or solidification phase of the manufacturing process, molecules are trapped in a haphazard pattern. This is down to stress caused in the bending and welding of the anode plate material.. This random placement causes obstacles for electrons and when encountered this interference can cause noise, slow down electron flow and sound deteriation affecting the quality of the sound of the vacuum tube. At very cold temperatures (below -312°F), the molecules will align in a more uniform, compact structure through the removal of kinetic energy. When the material is returned to ambient temperature, this new uniform, compact pattern is maintained, Thus changing the structure of the nickel permanently. This process makes a permanent change and the benefits do not deteriorate over time or upon return to operating temperature, it changes the whole way the vacuum tube performs.
http://www.watfordvalves.com/
I also upgraded my valves (6922) to a product by Watford Valves they are cryo valves here is some text on the treatment.
I found a massive improvment in mid and Hf i feel it was great upgrade to my pre amp.
"DEEP CYROGENTIC TREATMENT"
The process involves taking the vacuum tubes and freezing them down to -312 f and soaking these for a minimum of 12 hours. Then the temp is held at this low level for 24 hours. The vacuum tubes are then slowly brought up to normal levels over the next 12 hours.
Metals respond very well to deep cryogenic process. The reasons are as follows. During the cooling or solidification phase of the manufacturing process, molecules are trapped in a haphazard pattern. This is down to stress caused in the bending and welding of the anode plate material.. This random placement causes obstacles for electrons and when encountered this interference can cause noise, slow down electron flow and sound deteriation affecting the quality of the sound of the vacuum tube. At very cold temperatures (below -312°F), the molecules will align in a more uniform, compact structure through the removal of kinetic energy. When the material is returned to ambient temperature, this new uniform, compact pattern is maintained, Thus changing the structure of the nickel permanently. This process makes a permanent change and the benefits do not deteriorate over time or upon return to operating temperature, it changes the whole way the vacuum tube performs.
http://www.watfordvalves.com/
lugano
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DTB300
Well-known member
Totally agreee, Nsgarch,
I have found the same results with my ARC Pre using RCA 1950 Tubes. Some of the best sound from my Pre after trying out many different ones.
Nice post and it looked like a fun test to participate in!!!
Dan
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