CJ Questions

TrumpetDoug · Sep 21, 2008

Ok guys I have some serious CJ stuff on the hook. I could think of no better place to ask opinions of than the Ole ML Club:bowdown:. So here we go.

Conrad Johnson Premier 14 Pre-Amp. Minty condition, no remote.
Question 1 - Does anyone know of a place I could buy a remote for this?
2 - I'm sure I know the answer to this. Will this be a better pre-amp than my NAD?

Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000 zero feedback Power - Amp. Minty condition.
Question 1 - Are the tube expensive to replace if need be?
2 - Will this be a up-grade from my Threshold stasis 2?
And finally does anyone have any of this equipment and if so what do you think of it? Right now I am pretty fired-up about the thought of landing this gear. Am I right to fell this way?
I will anxiously await a response.

Doug - out

Cherian · Sep 21, 2008

The premier 14 is a very good pre amp. As I have seen most CJ gear uses the same IR code. If you do get the CJ preamp and you buy a cheap learning remote and you stop by my place I can program it for you (I live in Gurnee IL). Again I'm assuming this has the same code as all the other CJ stuff. So far I have noted the PV14LS, PFR and Premier 16LS all have the same IR code. I think it will be a big improvement over your NAD equipment.

The evolution 2000 is not a 100% tube amp. This has tubes for the input stage and FETs for the amplifier section. This is a very good amp because it has the power of an SS amp and the warmth of tubes. The tubes will set you back about $100 because it is a hybrid design because of this you only have 4 small tubes to change. I did get a chance to listen to one and it sounded great!!

I find the CJ / Martin Logan combo to be one of the best.

tonepub · Sep 21, 2008

Interesting question!

Back in the day, I traded in my Stasis 2 for an Evolution 2000...
I had Acoustat 2+2's at the time. As Cherian said, a set of four
5751 tubes for the Evo are about 100 bucks from CJ (or anywhere
else) or you could even experiment with some NOS stuff to fine tune
tonality a bit if the stock tubes aren't to your liking.

The Evolution will be a touch warmer than your Threshold, with
a little bit more midrange detail. Should be a great match with the
Premier 14.If there is any way to give it a listen before you buy, great
as the big diff from going from the Threshold to that model CJ is the
FET output transistors. They do have a bit of a "roundness" to them
that the Threshold does not have and you will either fall in love with
that sound, or not.

Either way, should you decide to get back out of the Evolution 2000,
there are a ton of people that will buy it, it's a pretty in demand piece.

Should you also decide that the Evo is a bit too soft for you, consider
the newer CJ ET250. This is a somewhat updated version of the Evo 2000
with 4/5ths the output stage of the Premier 350, with a pair of 6922/6DJ8 tubes. I've seen these floating around used for about 5k. (new, 7500)

As for the remote, it's the same remote the ACT2 and ART3 use. You can get one from CJ, but I'm pretty sure they are 500 bucks. You could also call CJ and get the plastic remote from the current model PV-15. Same functionality, just not the heavyweight billet remote. I think these are about 50 bucks. Talk to Ed in customer service, he'll take good care of you.

Good luck on the purchases, you should have a lot of fun!

TrumpetDoug · Sep 21, 2008

I love this site!!

Thanks for the info so far Tonepub and Cherian. I appreciate all the advice, it will really help me decide which way to go. Sounds like I should go for it at this point.

Doug - out

David Matz · Sep 21, 2008

Cherian said:
I find the CJ / Martin Logan combo to be one of the best.

Amen. I have not heard either of the items you mention, but as a general rule, these two brands seem to be made for each other. One of the reasons may be that the equipment is designed with the speakers in mind. I think either Mr. Johnson or Mr. Conrad owns Martin Logan speakers, and their Director of Marketing (Swedish guy?) either owns or has owned the CLS.

If you don't like it, you can always sell it.

Cherian · Sep 21, 2008

I have programmed my learning remote to work with my CJ preamp. So it shoud be no problem for me to program one for the Premier 14.

tonepub · Sep 21, 2008

Lew Johnson has a pair of KLH9's....

But has told me many times that he is very fond
of panels. I could find out if Tor (their former sales
mgr) of about 25 years had CLS's pretty easy.

He might even be at CES this year.

David Matz · Sep 22, 2008

tonepub said:
Lew Johnson has a pair of KLH9's....

But has told me many times that he is very fond
of panels. I could find out if Tor (their former sales
mgr) of about 25 years had CLS's pretty easy.

He might even be at CES this year.

That would be great.

I heard that Tor is, or was, a CLS owner and one of the guys owned the Aerius. It would be interesting to confirm. It would also explain the amazing synergy.

Diamonds · Sep 22, 2008

tonepub said:
Interesting question!

Back in the day, I traded in my Stasis 2 for an Evolution 2000...
I had Acoustat 2+2's at the time. As Cherian said, a set of four
5751 tubes for the Evo are about 100 bucks from CJ (or anywhere
else) or you could even experiment with some NOS stuff to fine tune
tonality a bit if the stock tubes aren't to your liking.

The Evolution will be a touch warmer than your Threshold, with
a little bit more midrange detail. Should be a great match with the
Premier 14.If there is any way to give it a listen before you buy, great
as the big diff from going from the Threshold to that model CJ is the
FET output transistors. They do have a bit of a "roundness" to them
that the Threshold does not have and you will either fall in love with
that sound, or not.

Either way, should you decide to get back out of the Evolution 2000,
there are a ton of people that will buy it, it's a pretty in demand piece.

Should you also decide that the Evo is a bit too soft for you, consider
the newer CJ ET250. This is a somewhat updated version of the Evo 2000
with 4/5ths the output stage of the Premier 350, with a pair of 6922/6DJ8 tubes. I've seen these floating around used for about 5k. (new, 7500)

As for the remote, it's the same remote the ACT2 and ART3 use. You can get one from CJ, but I'm pretty sure they are 500 bucks. You could also call CJ and get the plastic remote from the current model PV-15. Same functionality, just not the heavyweight billet remote. I think these are about 50 bucks. Talk to Ed in customer service, he'll take good care of you.

Good luck on the purchases, you should have a lot of fun!

Jeff,

In your opinion how much better is the ACT2 than the CT5 and then is the ART3 that much better than the ACT2. Just curious if I should be upgrading my preamp.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Thanks!
Dennis

roberto · Sep 22, 2008

tonepub said:
Lew Johnson has a pair of KLH9's....

But has told me many times that he is very fond
of panels. I could find out if Tor (their former sales
mgr) of about 25 years had CLS's pretty easy.

He might even be at CES this year.

Hola...Lew also has a pair of Oddyssey. I represent CJ here in Costa Rica since 1982!...one of best sounding stuff that money can buy...and I do not say this just because I represent them, I could get anything to be here, but I do trust my ears too...happy listening,
Roberto.

tonepub · Sep 22, 2008

Diamonds said:
Jeff,

In your opinion how much better is the ACT2 than the CT5 and then is the ART3 that much better than the ACT2. Just curious if I should be upgrading my preamp.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Thanks!
Dennis

Having had all three here at one time, I think the jump between the ACT2 and CT5 is much bigger than Wes Phillips described in Stereophile. The ACT2 is more powerful, dynamic and has a much bigger sound in every dimension.

However the ART3 is more "different" than the ACT2. The ART has an even bigger sound than the ACT2, with some of the widest soundstaging I think I've ever heard. It actually reminded me of my Aesthetix Callisto signature. I think a lot of the diff is the 10 6922 tubes in the ART vs. the 4 6H30's in the ACT2. Also, the ART is for all practical purposes a dual mono design. I found that by getting some good NOS 6H30's for my ACT2, I could bridge the gap between the two quite successfully.

The other reason I decided to stick with the ACT2, was the same reason I chose it over the Callisto signature: 4 tubes. Because my system is on 12 hours a day, I didn't want to go through a set of ten 6922's that fast...

Should you be interested in a perfect example of the ART3, our technical editor is getting rid of his. It doesn't quite fit in his racks and he's been bouncing back and forth between going back to an ACT2 and his Callisto...

(we both have pretty similar taste in sound)

The cool thing about the art, should you decide to go down that path is the exclusivity of only 250 of them being made.

PM me if you are interested, Dan has a full set of handpicked and matched NOS tubes for his ART.

If the preamps were cars, the CT5 would be a BMW M3, the ACT2 would be an M5 and the ART would be a MB E63 AMG.

Either way, best of luck!

Cherian · Sep 22, 2008

Just my 2 cents. I listened to the CT5 and CT6 with my equipment before settling on the Premier 16LS. I found the Premier 16 to be more dynamic and detailed and its imaging better than both the CT5 or CT6. The Premier 16 uses (6) 6922s. The more tubes in parallel, the lower the output impedance.

I would love to listen to and ART or ACT just to know. I'm hopping next year to have the funds for and ART.

David Matz · Sep 22, 2008

Diamonds said:
Jeff,

In your opinion how much better is the ACT2 than the CT5 and then is the ART3 that much better than the ACT2. Just curious if I should be upgrading my preamp.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Thanks!
Dennis

I auditioned the CT5 in my system with the 350 and the Vantages. Although, I loved the midrange and large physicial images, I did not like it as my BAT 51SE. CT5 lacks the transparency, the detail and top end air of the BAT unit. I also would love to try the Act2 v2, which to my understanding solves all of the problems of the CT5 and surpasses the BAT.

Has anyone heard the Lamm Reference L2? It's supposed to be that "equipment out the way" sound CJ is famous for.

What are the tradeoffs in Aesthetix vs. Act2?

Thanks!

David Matz · Sep 22, 2008

roberto said:
Hola...Lew also has a pair of Oddyssey. I represent CJ here in Costa Rica since 1982!...one of best sounding stuff that money can buy...and I do not say this just because I represent them, I could get anything to be here, but I do trust my ears too...happy listening,
Roberto.

Roberto, thank you for confirming. I think this explains the excellent synergy.

tonepub · Sep 22, 2008

I prefer the ACT2 to the VK51SE, but that's just me, my system and my room.
The VK51SE is a great preamp, certainly on the same level with the ACT2, the Callisto signature and the ARC Ref. Just a little different flavor between the three..

As for CJ and ML synergy, personally I think it's a coincidence on one level and them just building a good product on another.

They voice all of their recent gear in their main sound room with the Wilson ALexandria and Transparent cable....

I think the genius of CJ and BAT is that their principles spend a LOT of time listening to music. Bill Conrad attends 60-80 live concerts (mostly classical) in any given year and Victor Khomenko at BAT is the same way. These guys really have a good image of what real acoustic images in a real space sound like. Dave Wilson from Wilson and Neil Patel at Avalon also spend a lot of time around live music.

I have to believe that helps the design process tremendously.

Jeff Zaret · Sep 22, 2008

Just to add my 2cents to this. I have had several CJ preamps and amps. My current amp is the Premier 17LS2 which is the previous version of the CT5. It too has four 6922. I have heard both this and the CT5 and the difference to me was minimal. I agree with Cherian that the four tubes will reduce the impedance and to me seems to be just smoother throughout.

I have had two CJ amps. One SS and one tube. Currently I have the LP70S which is a tube amp. I felt this was the best synergy with my setup and with MLs. In Jeff's case, having a tube amp and have it running all day is just not practical and I am sure that is why he settled on the Premier 350 which is probably the closest sounding SS amp to tubes CJ has made to date.

I do not think you will be disappointed. As all the advice above, the best is try and give it a listen and see if you like the sound. You will know because it all depends on what you listen too and the source you use to listen. As my good friend Roberto always says, "trust your ears" you will know if you like it and you are the only one you have to please.

Jeff

SundayNiagara · Sep 22, 2008

David Matz said:
Amen. I have not heard either of the items you mention, but as a general rule, these two brands seem to be made for each other. One of the reasons may be that the equipment is designed with the speakers in mind. I think either Mr. Johnson or Mr. Conrad owns Martin Logan speakers, and their Director of Marketing (Swedish guy?) either owns or has owned the CLS.

If you don't like it, you can always sell it.

Thor Silvertsen is Norwegian.

TrumpetDoug · Sep 22, 2008

Thanks!

Cherian said:
I have programmed my learning remote to work with my CJ preamp. So it shoud be no problem for me to program one for the Premier 14.

Thanks so much for the offer. If I end up with this equipment I will for sure be PMing you for assistance. :bowdown:

Doug - out

Gordon Gray · Sep 23, 2008

Hi Doug,

FWIW, I've had the Premier 18LS preamp for some six (6) years now and have no desire to change. This is, I believe, the only SS preamp that CJ makes and certainly shares the musicality and house sound of other CJ components.

I'm confident you will find the CJ sound to be quite addictive.

GG

TrumpetDoug · Sep 24, 2008

Gordon Gray said:
Hi Doug,

FWIW, I've had the Premier 18LS preamp for some six (6) years now and have no desire to change. This is, I believe, the only SS preamp that CJ makes and certainly shares the musicality and house sound of other CJ components.

I'm confident you will find the CJ sound to be quite addictive.

GG

I would imagine the 18LS is a newer version of the premier 14. It sure would seem that this upgrade is the path I should take.

Doug - out

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