Preamp Suggestions, Please!

After owning a Sequel II system for nearly 20 years, I'm in the process of upgrading my entire 2ch setup. So far, I've swapped the Sequel II's for Vantages and the Aragon SS amp for a pair of Rogue M-150's. Now I'm looking for a complementary preamp and then I'll do the same with the CD/DAC.

I'd like to spend $4-5,000 and I'd prefer tubes, though I'm always open to other suggestions. New gear is preferred, simply because it makes home auditioning easier.

I have a Modwright LS 36.5, a VAC Sigma and a Cary SLP 05 lined up for the next couple of weeks. If anyone can suggest others I should audition, I'd be grateful.

Thanks!

Audio Research LS26. I'd also look at a used Ref 3 or the SP17.

Rur

I envy your dilemma...

Satch

eknuds01 said:

Audio Research LS26. I'd also look at a used Ref 3 or the SP17.

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Unfortunately, the Ref 3's I've seen on A-gon are well above my budget. I'd forgotten the LS-26 and there are multiple dealers "nearby". Do you know what it sells for new?

Satch said:

I envy your dilemma...

Satch

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Shoot, I held out for 20 years!

/Ken

RUR said:

After owning a Sequel II system for nearly 20 years, I'm in the process of upgrading my entire 2ch setup. So far, I've swapped the Sequel II's for Vantages and the Aragon SS amp for a pair of Rogue M-150's. Now I'm looking for a complementary preamp and then I'll do the same with the CD/DAC.

I'd like to spend $4-5,000 and I'd prefer tubes, though I'm always open to other suggestions. New gear is preferred, simply because it makes home auditioning easier.

I have a Modwright LS 36.5, a VAC Sigma and a Cary SLP 05 lined up for the next couple of weeks. If anyone can suggest others I should audition, I'd be grateful.

Thanks!

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At that price point, I would not look further than a used BAT VK-51SE. You will get the following:


- solid physical images
- texture

- detail
- transparency
- top end air
- dynamics

Most tube pre-amps will have the first 2 characteristics, some more than others. Also, you will get the same from your tube amps. The last 4 characteristics are why this may be the best preamp in its price range.

I was going to suggest the BAT VK31-SE for a little bit more tube "lushness" in the midrange while still being truthfull, and it's a bit less coin than the 51SE.

Look on audiogon regarding the SLP-05 vs the BAT 51. There have been a large discussion regarding the two. Last I remember, the 05 was better according to the consensus.

Of course, synergy has a lot to do with it.

I can tell you that with stock tubes alone, I felt that the 05 was an awesome match for the Plinius and Summits. I have rolled some tubes into the input/output stages of the 05, but my Sylvanias soften the sound too much and remove some of the etch that I like. I'm looking to get a good rectifier tube into the 05 and am looking forward to the changes (hopefully positive) that this brings.

Joey

David Matz said:

At that price point, I would not look further than a used BAT VK-51SE..

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MiTT said:

I was going to suggest the BAT VK31-SE for a little bit more tube "lushness" in the midrange while still being truthfull, and it's a bit less coin than the 51SE.

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I've considered the BAT's, but if I go used, I'll need to find a dealer with used gear to audition. I'd like to avoid either buying the gear on A-gon, only to audition and then sell it again or auditioning a dealer's new gear only to buy it used on A-gon. Ideally, I'll have 3-4 pre's in my listening room at one time, so that I can switch and swap to decide which sounds best with the other gear.

Having said this, a used VK32SE is in my price range. Is this considered to be step up/down from the VK51 or are they simply different?

RUR said:

Unfortunately, the Ref 3's I've seen on A-gon are well above my budget. I'd forgotten the LS-26 and there are multiple dealers "nearby". Do you know what it sells for new?


Shoot, I held out for 20 years!

/Ken

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I think the retail on the LS26 is 6k.

How about a Conrad Johnson CT-5?

You have lined up some great choices to audition. I would also suggest products in your price range from Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, and BAT. Depending on what type of sound you are looking for, I imagine that one of these preamps would fit the bill.

How about a Conrad Johnson Premier 16LS (also known as the baby ART). More to come on this later. :rocker:

As an owner of the LS-26 and as you can tell by my system (same amp's and speakers as you have), the sound and synergy of the system is mighty fine IMO.

The LS-26 is extremely close to the ARC Ref-3, so much so that I was fooled (when trying to distinguish between the two) while A-B'ing them @ Overture prior to making my purchase !

I've listened to Dave's LS26 and Dan's (DTB300) ARC pre-amp. I think he has the SP16 and I have the LS2 MK2 (tube hybrid) and in all cases, the ARC stuff sounded great.

I even brought over my MK2 and tried it out on Dan's system with his CLS speakers and we thought the SP16 and LS2 sounded very similar. Now we didn't perform extensive A/B testing mind you, but we tried them out for a good 30 mins or so and both pre-amps sounded terrific.

Erik

RUR said:

I've considered the BAT's, but if I go used, I'll need to find a dealer with used gear to audition. I'd like to avoid either buying the gear on A-gon, only to audition and then sell it again or auditioning a dealer's new gear only to buy it used on A-gon. Ideally, I'll have 3-4 pre's in my listening room at one time, so that I can switch and swap to decide which sounds best with the other gear.

Having said this, a used VK32SE is in my price range. Is this considered to be step up/down from the VK51 or are they simply different?

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I have not heard the 32 SE, but I heard from someone I respect that it is actually better than the 51SE.

To elaborate, I think BAT would be a great choice for you because you will have plenty of tube virtues from your Rogues. So if you go with any of the other recommendations, you may have too much of a good thing. Now, of course, you may like that. There are few bad choices in your price range!

However, if you enjoy live music, you appreciate dynamics and weight. Most equipment really misses the mark here. BAT, on the other hand, is famous for its dynamics, detail, transparency, etc., as I said above.

Another great preamp to try is the Ayre K1-Xe. It is solid state, but it does not sound like solid state (i.e. thin, lean, washed out, etc.) - it sounds like music. You won't really care that it is SS. There are more on the used market now as Ayre just came out with the jaw-dropping KXR preamp. K1-Xe works really well with all equipment, and should mate very nicely with your Rogues.


Have fun!

Add these to your list

RUR,
You should add these on your list to audition if you're already thinking of products in the $5k range:

1. Lamm Industries LL2 linestage
2. Atma-Sphere MP3
3. deHavilland Mercury

Now, on the "purist" front of passive-linestage, you should consider the "Transformer Volume Control" class:

1. AudioZone PRE-T1
2. Music First Passive Magnetic Preamp

For this products of this caliber, you REALLY need to audition them in your system carefully before making your decision.
That said, I need to disclose that I'm biased toward the ModWright LS-36.5 since you have the option of "upgrading" later with the dual-mono PS36.5 and take it to yet another level. I'm currently very happy with the tubed-rectified ModWright SWL 9.0 SE.

Good luck and enjoy the journey :music:

Spike

Spike said:

...I'm biased toward the ModWright LS-36.5 since you have the option of "upgrading" later with the dual-mono PS36.5 and take it to yet another level...

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Spike, that particular advantage has already crossed my mind.

Thanks to everyone who has provided possibilities! As a practical matter, I'll probably be limited to 3 or 4 models I can get my hands on at the same time for side-by-side comparison, but, as someone has already said, there probably aren't any bad choices at this price. I'll keep you posted!

Ken

Too bad you offed the Aragon. I've found my own particular choice for use with my Summits to be a BAT VK31SE with Aragon Palladium SS Monoblocks. There is sufficient tube warmth gained with the BAT to forgo more from a tube amp. i beleive I have the best of both worlds, tube warmth (but not over the top) and SS brute power than makes everything seem so effortless and unconstrained.

OBTW, I auditioned the VK51SE before purchasing my VK31SE and I found the differences difficult to descern. (I also needed some SE ins) I think that's partially what motivated VK to create the 2 piece REX to replace the 51 as their flagship. The new 32 offers some flexibility in tube selection for those who like to fiddle with the voicing of their gear by tube "rolling".

Plus,I like how it all looks together. The 2 tone BAT makes it easy to meld my black source gear with my silver amps and power conditioner.

DrJRapp said:

Too bad you offed the Aragon. I've found my own particular choice for use with my Summits to be a BAT VK31SE with Aragon Palladium SS Monoblocks.

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No worries, I still have the Aragon with no plans to sell it until everything is settled. The Sequels are for sale locally.

RUR said:

No worries, I still have the Aragon with no plans to sell it until everything is settled. The Sequels are for sale locally.

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I think that is a wise move. Which Aragon do you have? I understand that 8008s sound pretty much like my Pals (which they should since a Pal is essentially a dual differential bridged 8008).

SWA is running cheap fares from California to Florida...you're welcome to come spend a day or two listening if you want.. (I'm also a great host so I've been told)!