Why doesn’t reproduced music sound like the real thing?

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Consider yourself flaked! :)

I remember hearing a live player on a street, out of eye sight. I could tell it was someone playing a real instrument--rather than someone playing a recording loudly--even though the conditions were less than ideal.

Alas, I can't tell you *how* I knew it was real; it just sounded real.
 
No question about that - the recording does not sound the same as the instrument.

But for my money the recording jacked up loudly on my system blows away the real thing at normal acoustic playback levels.

ANother "distortion" that occurs is the "size" representation of the instrument. Playing it back via Ascents makes it sound as though I am playing a 10 ft long guitar.

The system, in essence, is acting as a magnifying lens, and presents quite astonishing levels of detail.

Anyway, Bernard, I am gonna pull lots of funny faces when I play now:)
 
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Didn't see that coming....

Here's a thought. When you listen to a 2 channel only production it is harder to get the ambience of the room in that presentation. However when you listen to the same production done properly in multi-channel SACD or DVD-A productions and listened to on a good or lets just say great multi-channel system, you get the room or venue ambience as part of the deal. And consequently you can reproduce sound that can exactly replicate the original performance. That is just one reason why I listen to multi-channel. I have had numerous guests say that the Martin Logan multi-channel system sounds to them just like a live concert performance.

It is probably another thread but it is kind of interesting that some people think that Stereo is much better than Mono because it comes closer to the real deal than Mono can and yet they won't give the same consideration to Multi-Channel, they even go so far as to say that multi-channel sounds inferior to them even when they use the same argument in favor of Stereo over mono. I guess it is just one of lifes questions that has a different answer depending on your own perception of reality. The argument that Stereo is twice as good as mono in reproducing the live performance and multi-channel is twice as bad as stereo at re-creating the live performance or whatever just doesn't make sense to me. I guess the only point to consider here-hear, is that when considering advice about audio gear, that if the source is striclty a stereo guy then their perspective should be considered with that in mind. Normally I hear on this forum to each his own, but is that really true? If someone is giving their perspective from a stereo only experience then for someone who lives in a multi-channel world their is always the specter that the perspective is severely flawed in the multi-channel world. Afterall, too each his own right? Or maybe not.:eek:
 
I have had numerous guests say that the Martin Logan multi-channel system sounds to them just like a live concert performance.
I too prefer MCH, but with Classical recordings more than any other genre. Classical recordings do MCH right most of the time compared to other genre's. They use the surrounds for room ambiance/sound recreation not to put singers or instruments in.

Playback of recorded music is just that - playback. It is recorded music, not live.

Personal preferences of some enjoy loud distorted volume levels. :confused:

For me the home system is to enjoy music and relax. Going out to clubs is to enjoy live music and the atmosphere. Both are very different and not comparable.
 
Going out to clubs is to enjoy live music and the atmosphere. Both are very different and not comparable.


That's the nail hit on the head Dan !

For me though I can (to a degree) draw a comparison, for we all do our level best to "capture the moment" with our respective systems. Case in point...... yours, it is a masterfull job of a superp cozy nightclub / Jazz atmosphere.
 
Personally, I think my system sounds better most of the time compared to live music.
 
We need to be precise in our definition of "live music". For some (including me) live music means unamplified, acoustic instruments, in a real acoustic venue. For others, live music means a rock concert. Both are live (in the unrecorded sense of the word), but they have very different sound qualities!

I would imagine most people here's systems would better the sound quality of the latter, but the former is a much harder goal.
 
RichTeer, you know I really don't think that is right from experience. Acoustic guitars and other stringed instruments record very well and play back superbly - try the download. It's a totally different story with an electric guitar at any good volume, at least if you are using mics. Room boom really comes into it, and you need some acoustic treatments to make it work well.

Most live recordings of rock bands suck quite badly, I think. But there are exceptions... can't think of many that come to mind, though.

What you musn't forget, though, is for studio recordings, someone played it - live! He/she just did it in an optimised environment.
 
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We need to be precise in our definition of "live music". For some (including me) live music means unamplified, acoustic instruments, in a real acoustic venue. For others, live music means a rock concert. Both are live (in the unrecorded sense of the word), but they have very different sound qualities!

I would imagine most people here's systems would better the sound quality of the latter, but the former is a much harder goal.

Agree 100%. However this whole point is missing the track!!

Yes, unamplified music in a real acoustic space is very different to a rock concert. Yes, most (if not all) systems here will sound better than a rock concert......

BUT.......whether the live sound is good or bad, both have qualities that recorded music CAN NOT CAPTURE! You would never mistake a live rock concert (no matter how bad it sounds) for a recording! That "live feeling" is what I wish recordings would capture but can not.
 
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The best way to experience "live" in the house is to sling a Blu Ray disc of a concert in. The visuals really help...
 
Adam,

I would argue that you are both correct and incorrect. It really is next to impossible to re-create that feeling of live music with a 2 channel system. However, I have listened and watched a concert that was mixed in a surround mode and played through a 7.2 Martin Logan system with a 120 inch 1080P screen and you can literally feel the electricity in the air and sense the ambience of the arena or venue. It is better than live if it is done properly and not all surround mixes are done properly. But if they are it is truly magic. If you are at that same concert and are all the way up front but off to the side or way in the back the 'experience' really is not as good as experiencing it in the 'right' surround sound with a high resolution video wall. 2 channel does some things well and other things not so well. But that is the point Multi-channel does some things that 2 channel just can't. It is interesting that multi channel gives you the opportunity at the flick of switch to listen to music in the 2 channel mode and then multi-channel mode so that you can decide in real time which is the better experience. Alas, 2 channel does not afford such a luxury and that is okay I guess but it is important to remeber that the 2 channel world has limitations that the multi channel world does not share and one of those is that you can reproduce that 'live' experience with the proper effort and MLs of course.:D
 
With all respect, I think both of you guys are presenting anecdotal evidence. Both sides have excellent points - inspiration, marketing, distribution, competition, intellectual property, risk vs. reward, life/ career trade-offs, etc. These are just some of the factors in the equation, but which weigh more? A good economist can probably fairly easily create a study to dig into the actual data and determine the answer, if it hasn't already been done.

Yea Dave, pretty much spot on, and I really didn't disagree with Rich's comments either, I still play for the personnel satisfaction it brings. In fact I am putting together a little Project Studio, bit by bit, as funds become available, but as far as getting out there, playing live, improvising within the songs, and getting that band/crowd action/reaction synergy/energy thing going, well... it has become a net-loss in a lot of areas.

As far as the "new economy" point I was making , you really would have to live in Mid Michigan to grasp what is actually happening here, it is truly devastating.
The people that used to work in all of the factories here were over 50% of the die-hard crowds that wanted, and DID go hear a good Rock-n-Roll band in numerous clubs EVERY weekend, like clockwork! It was great! But the amount of clubs closing, or not offering live music, is sadly very large.

Enough of "woe-is-us" and back to the main topic of this great thread. The studio monitors someone mentioned earlier in this thread were the dreaded Yamaha NS-10's, now I'm not knocking Yamaha (fine company), but these particular "industry standard" monitors in some cases are so bright that engineers would frequently tape 1/8" or more felt over the tweeter to "improve" the sound! (or maybe to protect their ears from fatigue/damage) LOL! Now how that monitor becomes a standard is beyond me, but it is hella funny!
I think my favorite quote in recent memory went something like this,
"I used to be an audiophile... until I found out what the studio did"
Now that (to me), just goes to show that beyond flying a couple of really good condensers over an orchestra, or ensemble and leaving all EQ's etc. flat, is going to be a recording manipulated by someone's SUBJECTIVE ears/equipment/bias's/knowledge/budget/whims etc. It's just that some do it better than others, depending on YOUR subjective tastes.
Anyone that wants to find out what makes some recordings "what they are"
needs to read a book like "Behind the Glass", and learn for themselves why (for instance) Alanis Morissette's vocals were tracked using a $10,000 vintage AKG C-12, and why Paul Rogers of Bad Co./Firm fame's vocals, were recorded (final take BTW) with a HAND HELD $100 Shure sm-57 , in the control room with monitors blaring, all mixed into final! And that's the keeper track that get's sent to press!

To sum up: I've been a music "FREAK" straight out of the womb, and can still remember almost jumping out of my seat at the first release of Edgar Winter's "Frankenstein", pumping out of my older sister's MONO dash speaker at the ripe old age of 7. A lot has changed since then, and music appreciation has not kept up in/with the masses that it once did. I think that ML has tried to re-ignite musical passions with a great line of products, and I hope they never stop! I just hope that we don't lose perspective, and try to preserve the reason that led us all to this place... a love for the thing that moves us all... THE MUSIC.
Cheerios, mofo's
Steve
BTW As always... correct me if I am (factually) wrong, later.
 
As far as the "new economy" point I was making , you really would have to live in Mid Michigan to grasp what is actually happening here, it is truly devastating.
The people that used to work in all of the factories here were over 50% of the die-hard crowds that wanted, and DID go hear a good Rock-n-Roll band in numerous clubs EVERY weekend, like clockwork! It was great! But the amount of clubs closing, or not offering live music, is sadly very large.

Thanks for clearing that up. It makes much more sense to me now. I thought you were referring to digital downloads / file swapping and so on when you spoke of the new economy. You are correct that if there aren't venues for musicians to play, and audiences willing to pay to see them, then the craft suffers as a whole.
 
I still dispute it - sorry. I doubt anyone would walk past a multi-channel listening room and mistake a live band playing in there. It's just not going to happen. Likewise when live music venues play recorded music - you would never mistake live for recorded or vice versa. I know recorded music can sound very good on our systems - 2 channel or multi-channel. It can make you buzz and shiver with excitement. That, I'm not disputing. But nobody would make the mistake of thinking it was live.
 
I guess we agree to disagree, although after you hear a multi-channel CLX or Statement system you may want to reconsider. The CLX and Statement really are that good. And there are other systems out there although a bit pricey that can replicate a live performance, enough to easily fool the best ear.
 
I guess we agree to disagree, although after you hear a multi-channel CLX or Statement system you may want to reconsider. The CLX and Statement really are that good. And there are other systems out there although a bit pricey that can replicate a live performance, enough to easily fool the best ear.

And what about my earlier posts in this same thread where I've heard with my very own ears tinny shopping centre speakers sounding spectacular when being fed a live feed.

I've heard some very ordinary systems sound spectacular when receiving a live feed - any pub for a start.
 
I still dispute it - sorry. I doubt anyone would walk past a multi-channel listening room and mistake a live band playing in there. It's just not going to happen. Likewise when live music venues play recorded music - you would never mistake live for recorded or vice versa. I know recorded music can sound very good on our systems - 2 channel or multi-channel. It can make you buzz and shiver with excitement. That, I'm not disputing. But nobody would make the mistake of thinking it was live.

100% agreed. You will never get that LIVE sound from a recording. Even the best HT systems or 2 channel still sound like a recording.
 
When I was younger and used to go to a lot of punk gigs....

This is what live was to me:

1) Going down the front and pogoing. It'd get so cramped you'd all move up and down en mass. As you went down, the heat would come up. As you went up, you'd gasp for some fresh air. It'd get so tight you could take your feet of the ground and still move with the crowd. You'd take 20 minutes of it, then take a breather, then do another 20. The energy was amazing.

2) You'd spend a week getting over the tinitus the volume at the gigs was so loud.

3) Swill down a good few pints before and during the gig. It all seemed a lot better after a few jars.

4) Try to avoid getting smacked in the face by the more agressive types.:devil:

5) SQ was almost irrelevant - as long as it was loud. The bands at the time where so packed full of energy (The Clash, The Damned, Joy Division, The Undertones, The Stranglers etc etc) and excitement it was amazing. Really &$*&!£$*&&!!! enjoyable. After the gig, you'd just feel great - like nothing else compared.

6) The dance floor would be full of broken plastic pint jars, fag butts, and spilt beer afterwards.

7) At a Damned gig once in London, a large percentage of the chairs got smashed and thrown towards the stage. They had to keep stopping the gig, as the bits kept landing on people. So they'd get them up on stage, covered in blood, and pronounce the gig would be stopped unless it stopped. The bouncers were indiscriminantly punching people, working from the outside of the crowd to the inside. Rough as hell (a bit like being in it, actually) but it was one of the best gigs I have ever been too!

Additionally, Captain Sensible poured a flaggon of ale over the support act, came on stage with a 30 foot inflatable dinosaur tail, but otherwise totally naked, and featured on the front page of the NME the next week!

Now THAT is live.:rocker::rocker::rocker::devil:

Don't talk to me about SQ.... blinkin' irrelevant mate. And really not necessary to having a thoroughly GREAT TIME!!!

If I could buy those days back I'd do it in an instant!
 
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