weak FM reception

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Brad225

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OK all of you with technical knowledge. I have a newly opened retail business that I can not get FM reception. Concrete block building with metal trusses and metal roof sheathing. Its a bit of a hilly area but, its Florida how hilly can that be. I have tried 2 different receivers a Yamaha and a Sherwood. These are units I have used in all of our other stores. Both in the $150-$200 range.

Sound quality is not important just background music.

Along with the different receivers I have tried two powered antennas and a 80" boom antenna on the roof with a 10db gain amp at the receiver to boost the signal. Still bad signal on the few stations I can get.

My next step possibility is to buy a more expensive receiver with a better tuner in it. What should I look for in the specs to know if the tuner is going to be better.

If any of you have any suggestions I would appreciate it.

One of the other options is sat. radio or muzak but I would rather not have to pay that much every month for back ground noise.
 
Brad, alternatively, if you have internet access there, you can stream local (or national) radio streams via your PC, or a Squeezebox or Roku device. Another option might be XM/Sirius.
 
Thanks Guys

If we play recorded music, legally we must pay royalties for every song played. Over the air programing does not fall into that category. There are people who go to restaurants and other retail establishments to see what is being played. If you are found to be playing recorded music they prorate the time you have been open and bill you accordingly. It happens more often than you would think.

As far as Internet. We only use dial-up for transmitting information back to our office from each store. The dial-up is slow enough as to make it painful for employees to want to surf the net.

The Sirius may be the way to go at $13 a month if I can't find a receiver.
 
As far as I know the is no distinction between types of music.

Is there something about classical music that you think would it would not be considered?
 
Sounds Like the area is just killing the radio signal. I'm not so sure that a more expensive receiver would help. The roof antenna usually does it.
 
OK all of you with technical knowledge. I have a newly opened retail business that I can not get FM reception. Concrete block building with metal trusses and metal roof sheathing. Its a bit of a hilly area but, its Florida how hilly can that be. I have tried 2 different receivers a Yamaha and a Sherwood. These are units I have used in all of our other stores. Both in the $150-$200 range.

Sound quality is not important just background music.

Along with the different receivers I have tried two powered antennas and a 80" boom antenna on the roof with a 10db gain amp at the receiver to boost the signal. Still bad signal on the few stations I can get.

My next step possibility is to buy a more expensive receiver with a better tuner in it. What should I look for in the specs to know if the tuner is going to be better.

If any of you have any suggestions I would appreciate it.

One of the other options is sat. radio or muzak but I would rather not have to pay that much every month for back ground noise.

Hi,
A couple of things come to mind...first is that there may be a nearby transmitter that is overloading the RF amp, and/or the front end of the FM tuner. It doesn't have to be on an FM frequency. If it is powerful enough, it can do it even with a much different frequency. If this is the case. you'll neeed to get a filter to block the offending frequency(s).

Second, you mention you have an antenna amplifier at the receiver. Doing it this way, you are amplifying the signal, plus the noise from the leadin wire. Better is to put the amplifier at the antenna end of the leadin wire, then it is amplifying only the signal.

If you need to get a filter, put it BEFORE any amplifier, as the strong signal can overload the amp if not filtered out.

Another possibility is a directional antenna, with a rotator. This can mean rotating the antenna when changing stations, but this shouldn't be a problem as it sounds like your setup will be a set and forget type of thing for the background music.

HTH,
Peter
 
lugano, maybe flowers for a grave and Vodka for everyone else. I understand your point but the "media police" appear not to care. The legal cost to fight is way more than up front purchase.


Thanks All
 
lugano, maybe flowers for a grave and Vodka for everyone else. I understand your point but the "media police" appear not to care. The legal cost to fight is way more than up front purchase.

Sorry to keep this thread steered away from FM reception, but I'm still puzzled about this. WHO are THEY? Who does the fining? Under what jurisdiction? If I choose to, say, play a recording of my friend's indie band at my restaurant, what claim does Sony or BMG have on it?

As for FM reception...it's time for me to try to remember something from my undergraduate days in electrical engineering...

Like with hi-fi, garbage-in, garbage-out. There's only so much clean-up you can do after the fact and you can't recreate a signal where there is none, so getting the best possible signal in the first place is the way to go. Powered antennas are usually incredibly low-tech and they just amplify everything in the RF so if there is a lot of distortion, interference, and noise, it boosts all that, too. As a result, in most situations, powered antennas are more trouble than they're worth and don't do anything useful you couldn't otherwise do with a good high-gain unidirectional antenna and a halfway decent tuner.

Also, bear in mind, terrestrial radio performance is heavily influenced by atmospheric conditions, so some days the atmosphere will be just right for you to pull in a low-power DX station 200 miles away and other days even the high powered mega-station across town will be tough.

So, the quest for decent FM performance has to start with an antenna. The cadillac of external FM antennas these days is made by a company called Antenna Performance Specialities. They make antennas for around $100-$200. Bear in mind, unless all of the radio stations you wish to listen to are in the same direction from your location, you'll need an antenna rotor to be able to spin the antenna around to point in the direction of the station you're interested in. So, in addition to a $100-$200 antenna, you're need a rotor, a mast, and, if you're not doing it yourself, the installation costs of crawling up on the roof and installing the mess. On the bright side, this is the single most cost-effective thing you can do to improve FM performance. Everything after this is diminishing returns. It is quite possible once you get a decent outdoor antenna and rotor set up, your job will be done.

The next best thing you could try is improve the tuner itself. There are exceptions, but just about every tuner made after about 1985 stinks, so find something OLD. There is a thriving business on-line of people buying and selling vintage tuners. At the high end, everyone's looking for that PERFECT and rare Sansui or Kenwood and shelling out a couple grand for it, but there are TONS of excellent tuners out there for under $100 that beat the pants off anything you'd find in Best Buy or Circuit City today.

The single best resource on-line for tuners, new and old...but mostly old, is http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/ . You can find a lot of good information on acheiving good FM radio reception and on the vintage tuners themselves.

If you're looking for quick-and-dirty cheap (but it didn't 't sound like it from your original post), try the good ol' GE Superadio III. It's an outstanding AM and FM radio and favorite of many hard-core FM fans. Its fame and performance is only outdone by the Superadio II and the Superadio before it. It's darned cheap too, at $50. I see these things frequently in offices I frequent because they're CHEAP and they WORK, which is more than can be said for a lot of junk perporting to be an FM radio.

Hope this helps! And remember the three most important things about getting decent FM performance: antenna, antenna, antenna!

Dan
 
I don't know about the satellites over the US, but here in Europe, with a satellite dish and a sat receiver you get top quality radio programs. Maybe you could explore that.

I tried to steer away from radio as such because I can not stand advertising and stupid blattering. In Europe - again - radios are terrible to listen at. Some idiots that think they are funny just yell in the microphone, at song start, during playback and cut the song when they feel they have something to say (which is almost all the time) so you end up listening to 30% music, 30% a**holes talking just about everything you couldn't care less about, and 40% advertising.

And of course I'm 110% with Dan about the golden age of tuners - if you look at my system you'll see that I ditched a supertech sony tuner and got myself an Accuphase from the 80's. Actually, I would have liked a Magnum Dynalab more, but the tuner budget was limited.
 
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Dan, I don't know how independent music if not signed to a label would be handled.

In the case of my "media police" it is the FCC. We own Arby's restaurants and in the past there were many franchisees that were fined by them for playing recorded music.

I'm sure there are some still trying but I don't know of any.

I still have a early 80s Yamaha T1 tuner in storage. I will try that next.

I don't mind the trial and error, just get tired of going up on the roof. Oh well just one of the things you get to do when your trying to keep costs down.
 
Oh well just one of the things you get to do when your trying to keep costs down.

Hey, Brad, just upgrade your restaurant to an Audiophile Arby's, with higher-end sandwiches, and higher prices, to cover the cost of an audiophile-grade sound system and music!

You can even charge a premium for sitting in the "sweet spot". :D
 
Actually, I would have liked a Magnum Dynalab more, but the tuner budget was limited.

I tired a couple Magnum Dynalab tuners over the years (FT-11 & FT-101) and was never terribly impressed. I tried really hard to like them, but never could get the performance out of them I expected.

Even though they were trendy for a while and then got a HUGE quantity of critics after that, one of the most enjoyable tuners I had as a Carver TX-11. It wasn't audiophile, per se, since some of the highs and lows were clipped off, but the overall sound wasn't that bad and it was a breeze to lock into channels with minimal noise, static, and over distracting artifacts. Easy, decent, FM...I kind of wish I still had that thing.
 
In the case of my "media police" it is the FCC. We own Arby's restaurants and in the past there were many franchisees that were fined by them for playing recorded music.

Now that's strange. I wonder how the FCC has jurisdiction. They regulate OTA broadcasts, electromagnetic radiation, and other things that float in the ether, which is why they don't have much say over what cable companies do. If you're playing a CD in your restaurant, where exactly is the RF they are regulating?
 
Hey, Brad, just upgrade your restaurant to an Audiophile Arby's, with higher-end sandwiches, and higher prices, to cover the cost of an audiophile-grade sound system and music!

You can even charge a premium for sitting in the "sweet spot". :D

I'm afraid for many customers the only "sweet spot" they would relate to is those crystal granules left in the bottom of their cup of sweet tea.

That would go for my go for my wife and bussiness partner. But I will float the idea buy them.
 
Now that's strange. I wonder how the FCC has jurisdiction. They regulate OTA broadcasts, electromagnetic radiation, and other things that float in the ether, which is why they don't have much say over what cable companies do. If you're playing a CD in your restaurant, where exactly is the RF they are regulating?

That is all I know but, I will see if I can find out anything more.

I over see the construction end of the business so my knowledge is somewhat limited, by choice. My wife and her brother handle operation and I am thankful it's them and not me.
 
Dan,
I check with other owners and apparently about 3+ years ago either a law changed or a law suit forced the FCC to abandon the practice of stopping commercial establishments from playing recorded music.

I am going to try my old analog tuner this week if that doesn't work it will be satellite radio in a lock box to prevent station changing.
 
I'm curious what the reception is like in an auto parked out front, and then 100 yards from the building, and then 1/2 mile. Is the issue the building structure or geographical location?
 
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