Vista's are a disappointment

[holmancv]

I just came back from Magnolia HiFI and I'm very disappointed. I was ready to bring home a new pair of Vistas but when I auditioned them for one last time they sounded flat and muffled. The dealer thought I was nuts until he came in and gave a listen too. He fussed with the amp (stereo amp 75 * 2) but still couldn't find a solution. Does anyone have any thoughts on what's going on. My Mosiacs would currently kick the Vista's butt!

 

[Joey_V]

I just came back from Magnolia HiFI and I'm very disappointed. I was ready to bring home a new pair of Vistas but when I auditioned them for one last time they sounded flat and muffled. The dealer thought I was nuts until he came in and gave a listen too. He fussed with the amp (stereo amp 75 * 2) but still couldn't find a solution. Does anyone have any thoughts on what's going on. My Mosiacs would currently kick the Vista's butt!

Take it home with you and audition it there... easy to say that one's well-positioned and well-tweaked speakers are better, but audio memory is never as good as a direct A/B comparison. Either take your Mosaics to the store, which is relatively easy since they weigh less that 40lbs a piece, or demo a pair of the Vistas at home.

Also, like I said in previous messages on this board... position position position! Toe in is very important with these newer Logans from my experience.

AND.. make sure you are using a good source (cdp or tt) and a very adept amp and preamp... tubes somewhere would be good.

You must also listen to songs that you know and you consistently play with in your own system.

Joey

 

[roberto]

I just came back from Magnolia HiFI and I'm very disappointed. I was ready to bring home a new pair of Vistas but when I auditioned them for one last time they sounded flat and muffled. The dealer thought I was nuts until he came in and gave a listen too. He fussed with the amp (stereo amp 75 * 2) but still couldn't find a solution. Does anyone have any thoughts on what's going on. My Mosiacs would currently kick the Vista's butt!

Hola...with all respect, I don´t think so...why don´t you try to demo them at your own place? Besides, your Mosaics have being broken inn already. Why am I so sure regarding the Vistas versus your Mosaics? 1) The electrostatic panel is faster than your ATF drivers, and 2) more coherency because only uses one crossover point around 450Hz. 3) The soundstage and the size of the instruments are so great with the electrostatics, and the transparency...listen to voices or solo instruments. Something went wrong there at Magnolia. Don´t get me wrong, your Mosaics are very good speakers, but Vistas are far better. The price tells you that too, becasue ML is not going to cheat anyone. The new panel of the Vistas makes them very good sounding speakers. They are not ment for everyone, but for a dedicated audiophile, he will love them with no problem, giving tons of enjoyment. You are ment for them...trust me...demo them at your own place with your electronics...remember that they are not easy to drive as your Mosaics are. I wish you a very happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[holmancv]

I was hoping to hear from you and Joey and look, the double whammy! I am using Outlaw 2200's which deliver 200 w @ 8 ohms and 300 @ 4 ohms, the dealer was using a Primare amp which is considerable less powerful, could this have been the problem?

 

[roberto]

I was hoping to hear from you and Joey and look, the double whammy! I am using Outlaw 2200's which deliver 200 w @ 8 ohms and 300 @ 4 ohms, the dealer was using a Primare amp which is considerable less powerful, could this have been the problem?

It is difficult to us from here, tell you what could be wrong, but I assure you that you will have an outstanding sound from the Vistas...and IMHO better than your Mosaics. The size of the instruments and the stage is more real with the electrostatic panels...also the transparency...give it a try...you might like them as I do...and you have a great power amp. Just remember that you have to listen to them at least two or three days to understand the differences, don´t do A-B tests...just play through them your favority music and enjoy!. Remember that the bass might be a little shy at the first 50 hours as your Mosaic did...just have fun with them...happy listening my friend,
Roberto.

 

[Dreamer]

I just came back from Magnolia HiFI and I'm very disappointed. I was ready to bring home a new pair of Vistas but when I auditioned them for one last time they sounded flat and muffled.

That is a very interesting statement, because technically, Magnolia is NOT an authorised "ESL Series" dealer, they are only scheduled as a "Design Series" dealer, meaning they carry the small subs, the in-wall HT speakers, the Frescos, and the Clarity and Mosaic.

How a Magnolia got their hands on a pair of Vistas is someting I don't quite understand, but unless they are different from the Magnolia stores in MD and are an "ESL and Design Series" level retailer, thy must have special ordered them or something. It's therefore not surprising that they don't sound good, because they haven't been properly trained in setting them up and driving them with the right gear.

I've heard the Vistas at Tweeters (ESL and Design) and Soundworks (Signature Dealer), and I thought they sounded very nice. At Tweeter they were being driven by a small Krell amp, and at Soundwerks they were being driven by a big Ayre amp. They were set up correctly at both dealers, and were being driven by respectable amps and front-end gear. I've always thought the Vistas sound pretty good--like a much more refined and smooth Sequel. not nearly as much "punch" as the Vantage, and nowhere near the silky goosebump-generating realism as the Summit, but pretty darn good!

I think part of the problem with your Magnolia experience is that 75wpc probably isn't enough juice, especially if it was from a "home theater receiver". With most receivers, 75 watts isn't really 75 watts--it's more like 50 watts, with 25 wats of really limited and sloppy headroom.

That, and I really doubt they had tehm set up correctly. The Magnolias I've been in are really just glorified "box stores", and most of the folks there don't seem to be more than high-ticket Best Buys salesmen.

If they won't let you take them home and try them with your gear, ask them if they'll let you bring your amp and preamp in and hook them up in the store. And be sure that they are positioned correctly. Having them positioned right is half the battle with ESLs. If they are't angled right, and the right distance from the rear wall, they will sound flat, or bloated, or lack detail, or muddy. But when you get them lined up right with the listening position, they will snap right into focus!

Good luck!

--Richard C.

 

[holmancv]

Richard, the Magnolia we have here, on Oregon is of a different ilk, they are the real McCoy. I do know what you mean about knowledge base though, one guy said the Vantage and Vista have the same drivers but the Vantage had a powered sub. Another guy said something else. I have one particular sales person that I use and he's the guy who turned me on to Outlaw electronics, something nobody retails. Thanks for the kind and helpful words, I appreciate it.

 

[edwinr]

Maybe the Vistas weren't run in or maybe it's a room or setup thing. It could also be the amplifer, or a combination of everything! But the new Martin Logans need TLC at home and a little tweaking and positioning to get them right. A few minutes auditiion will tell you nothing. My Summits have taken me 6 months to run in and get right vis a vis amplifiers, a new CD player etc. Now they are sounding fantastic. It's worth the effort.

Other speaker brands might by initially easier to set up and match with electronics, but they don't have that ultimate capability to reach the hi-fi Holy Grail - the ability to reproduce an musical instrument as though the artist is actually in your room.

 

[magnoliarichj]

i think the vistas soud too similar to my clarties and unless your willing to make the jump to vantages or higher save your money. plus if it was on a dennon amp try a yamaha in the store or better. thats my rec.

 

[magnoliarichj]

magnolia is a esl dealer the magnolias in best buys are not. they are 2 seperate entities. you can also get krell mcintosh and primare at magnolia stores and at best buy magnolias you have to special order.

 

[Pcar928fan]

magnolia is a esl dealer the magnolias in best buys are not. they are 2 seperate entities. you can also get krell mcintosh and primare at magnolia stores and at best buy magnolias you have to special order.

The Magnolia in one of my BB's is...or at least they have ESL's...

 

[johnlabadia]

i think the vistas soud too similar to my clarties and unless your willing to make the jump to vantages or higher save your money. plus if it was on a dennon amp try a yamaha in the store or better. thats my rec.

Interesting... I'm in the process replacing some speakers, and I've narrowed down my search (via the web) to the ML Vista's, B&W 804's, or Focal 918's. Planning on listening to 2 out of the 3 this weekend.

In the ML lineup, is the Clarity the most bang for your buck? I had thought the larger, ESL panel of the Vista would have been worth the additional expense. Agree, disagree...?

 

[Burke]

In the ML lineup, is the Clarity the most bang for your buck? I had thought the larger, ESL panel of the Vista would have been worth the additional expense. Agree, disagree...?

I listened to both the Clarity and Vista and ending up buying the Vista's never regretted it. Thought the sound was much better. Currently making the jump to Summits again a noticable difference.

Probably best bang for the buck is the Vista.

 

[holmancv]

John, I too am considering the B&W 800 series speakers. They are really beautiful boxes as are the ML line of speakers. My inclination is to go with the Vistas since my surrounds and center are ML. (My two rear surrounds are both Definitive Tech BP-2's) I listened to the large Definitive Tech towers and was reminded why I had such a crush on them when I bought some BP-2's for mains ten years ago. I can't find a dealer that carries all three speakers, so when I'm ready to go (again) I'll see if they have corrected the flatness in the Vistas then make my choice. Outlaw has just released a bookshelf speaker system that piques my interest but it's more a small box and perhaps would not hack it as a main.

 

[IWalker]

You sure the power cords were plugged in? I would almost think you'd have to have a mattress or blanket tied onto the front of them to make them sound like that! If the panels weren't charged, due to lack of wall power...that could have been an issue...dunno. Definitely a great speaker, though.

 

[Pcar928fan]

You sure the power cords were plugged in?

That is what I was thinking too...there is no good reason they should have sounded BAD, but maybe a set up issue made them sounds iffy, but they certainly should have been better than the speaker in the family that is 2/3rds the cost...there are good reasons why things tend to cost more than something else made by the same company...

 

[lugano]

Just listened to a pair of NEW summits, with $25'000 worth of M. Levinson amplification and XLR Audioquests wiring all around. Source was a $3000 CD player.

I'm trying to find the best ML setup for a friend that knows my system and wants to become a ML owner. And he's got the dough.

My friend and I listened 20 minutes to familiar CD's we brought ourselves.

Compared to my CLS II + sub, they sucked. His words, not mine. Bad placement, bad settings behind, and not broken-in enough. Might be your case, too.

 

[magnoliarichj]

John, I too am considering the B&W 800 series speakers. They are really beautiful boxes as are the ML line of speakers. My inclination is to go with the Vistas since my surrounds and center are ML. (My two rear surrounds are both Definitive Tech BP-2's) I listened to the large Definitive Tech towers and was reminded why I had such a crush on them when I bought some BP-2's for mains ten years ago. I can't find a dealer that carries all three speakers, so when I'm ready to go (again) I'll see if they have corrected the flatness in the Vistas then make my choice. Outlaw has just released a bookshelf speaker system that piques my interest but it's more a small box and perhaps would not hack it as a main.

magnolia carries both.

 

[magnoliarichj]

Interesting... I'm in the process replacing some speakers, and I've narrowed down my search (via the web) to the ML Vista's, B&W 804's, or Focal 918's. Planning on listening to 2 out of the 3 this weekend.

In the ML lineup, is the Clarity the most bang for your buck? I had thought the larger, ESL panel of the Vista would have been worth the additional expense. Agree, disagree...?

i think that any ml paney youll be happy with but for the extra 400 or so a speaker i would spend it on a better amp cables etc. the big diff is going from clartiys to the vantages or higher. great bang for the buck... then again i would rather watch a clear 13" tv than a blurry 96".

 

[Joey_V]

I listened to both the Clarity and Vista and ending up buying the Vista's never regretted it. Thought the sound was much better. Currently making the jump to Summits again a noticable difference.

Probably best bang for the buck is the Vista.

Vista is the best bang in my opinion.