jmschnur
Well-known member
I just broke in my Montis. I will use the ML supplied spikes for a while. Then I will play with rake and this may require new spikes. I have not put on the ML spikes yet.
Upgrade spikes on ElectroMotion ESL?
- Thread starter camflan
- Start date
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I just broke in my Montis. I will use the ML supplied spikes for a while. Then I will play with rake and this may require new spikes. I have not put on the ML spikes yet.
Thanks for the apology. I apologize as coming off as brash regarding the snake oil comment on Mapleshade products (I wasn't exactly directing that comment at their spikes). I should've elaborated on my stance instead of just a quick blanket statement. I still believe a large part of their tweak/accessories are snake oil and/or overpriced. There are several examples but they're off topic. I hadn't heard of Mapleshade until recently. I got a catalog by them in the mail and after looking at some of the products and reading the Free Upgrades page they set off alarms to me. I'm an audio skeptic and a lot of stuff gets my goat. Don't get me started on what I think of 6moons.
Yes I have not used their products but I don't exactly need to use some of them to know they're not my thing. As an extreme example I don't have to use Machina Dynamica's products to know they're BS. For reference: http://www.machinadynamica.com/index.html
I did read that thread. I'm skeptical of it but I refrained from commenting. I should've kept my mouth shut on this one too.
Noted. I usually follow that... gotta love how the passion for the hobby can blind you sometimes. heh
Anyway on topic to the OP. Considering the EM ESL's spikes also contain the legs I'm guessing it'll be hard to find a replacement without someone making something custom for you. I'm not sure if the higher end ESL's Vantage, Vista, Ethos, Theos, etc have similar spikes. I suppose you could add some washers or nuts to adjust the rake and level slightly, it'll probably look stupid but for the most part you won't really see it all the time. I'm not really a fan of the look of the Leg/Spike combo myself. I thought the stock spikes on my Source speakers were a bit more fancy looking and feeling then the EM ESL's.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Thanks Tch for your post.
Given Pierre's cheesy marketing, I fully understand your skepticism and your reasons for considering his products snake oil.
He, along with many other manufacturers, need to balance their bravado with a health dose of "science" substantiating why their alleged improvements warrant serious consideration.
If you are a jazz fan, I highly recommend that you purchase the "Clifford Jordan Quartet / Live at Ethell's" Mapleshade CD. It may give you an appreciation of some of Pierre's talents.
Best,
Gordon
Given Pierre's cheesy marketing, I fully understand your skepticism and your reasons for considering his products snake oil.
He, along with many other manufacturers, need to balance their bravado with a health dose of "science" substantiating why their alleged improvements warrant serious consideration.
If you are a jazz fan, I highly recommend that you purchase the "Clifford Jordan Quartet / Live at Ethell's" Mapleshade CD. It may give you an appreciation of some of Pierre's talents.
Best,
Gordon
camflan
Active member
As I understand it, the foot/spike assembly is standard spike threading. Should be an easy replacement.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Camron,
Need to check diameter size and number of threads per inch.
If all else fails (stock), you can always order custom from the website I provided or others. Minor cost increase.
GG
PS: You can go to any fully stocked hardware store and buy some sample thread combinations to determine what size fits. For example, 1/4 - 20 means 1/4" diameter / 20 threads per inch. Just get a receipt so you can return those that don't work.
Need to check diameter size and number of threads per inch.
If all else fails (stock), you can always order custom from the website I provided or others. Minor cost increase.
GG
PS: You can go to any fully stocked hardware store and buy some sample thread combinations to determine what size fits. For example, 1/4 - 20 means 1/4" diameter / 20 threads per inch. Just get a receipt so you can return those that don't work.
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Just to add my own experience with speaker / floor coupling, i found a benefit in not using spikes at all. Bear in mind my system is on the first floor of a relatively old property, circa 110 yrs, so is suspended and carpeted. The (for now) preferred method was to fit (with some light modification) Finite Elemente 'Cerabases' to the base of the speaker, and this sits on a stone slab that in turn is sitting on four machine screws into the floorboards. These allow for the rake adjustment, which, for my set up 88.5 degrees seems optimal. (panel angle).
There may be an image that shows this on my system page. It is costly, compared to spikes, but i will say that with the many other areas of optimisation, i would not part with my ML's easily.
There may be an image that shows this on my system page. It is costly, compared to spikes, but i will say that with the many other areas of optimisation, i would not part with my ML's easily.
bzr
Well-known member
Personally I think we should ban Camron's ass back to the golf course for starting this.
camflan
Active member
Thanks for the suggestion. I wouldn't consider myself a Jazz fan, mostly because I don't know much of it and I'm having a hard time finding jazz I like. The jazz I'm looking for has the "it's 1am, I'm in smokey hole in a the wall kind of bar, life sucks and I need some whiskey straight from the bottle while I listen to this band play/noir" kind of vibe.
However I do enjoy Miles Davis - Kind of Blue and Art Pepper - Meets the Rhythm Section. I'll see if I can find the disc you recommended and give it a listen.
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
I have both of those.
Based on your description, I trust you will not be disappointed.
Cam, I hope you know folks are pulling your leg.
GG
Based on your description, I trust you will not be disappointed.
Cam, I hope you know folks are pulling your leg.
GG
camflan
Active member
jmschnur
Well-known member
What sound system do you take on tour?
Is it over? Safe to come out? Iv'e seen the MS catalog myself and I admit I was/am skeptical. I am interested in the music catalog however. As for spikes I am setup on hardwood and thus it's rubber baby buggy bumpers!! So what happens when someone brings up speaker wire or interconnects? With the EM/ESL using the spring connectors is really it, I tried the Banana option and was less than thrilled with the results. I'm using 14 gauge wire from Audioquest unterminated both ends. -Rick
Bernard
Well-known member
Are we talking reincarnation?This isn't my first trip around the block
- Camron
I am also highly skeptical of Pierre's claims regarding his audio tweaks. I have tried a few of his cables and was unimpressed. I know at least one other person on the forum that feels differently. Mapleshade's music, on the other hand, is a whole 'nother matter. His recording and mastering skills are superb and he has some fantastic discs available. I can highly recommend them. I particularly like the blues CDs, including discs by Blue Rider Trio, Drink Small, Big Joe Maher, and Bad Influence. All great stuff.
I actually use hocky pucks, with a small hole drilled out for the spike to sit in. Works great.
Oh, that's just kids play. Now when someone brings up window dots, then things really get heated.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Ah. My legacy. Never to be forgotten.
Sorry Gordon. Couldn't help myself. Just had to beat Bernard to the punch.Ah. My legacy. Never to be forgotten.
By the way, if anyone is qualified to opine on the effectiveness of window dots, it is you. Because you have more square footage of glass behind your speakers than anyone else on the forum!
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
That's OK my friend.
Regarding your MS wire comments, I agree that they are voiced in a manner that makes them very system dependent, not unlike other wire but perhaps to a more extreme degree.
I ended up changing to DH Labs (interconnects and speaker wire) and found DH to have more body and weight in the mid / low bass area, which works quite well in my current system. DH is quite like MS in its transparency, quickness, and sound staging capabilities.
However, some may find Pierre's wire a good match, especially in systems that are voiced on the "warm" side of the equation and / or have some bass response room issues.
Best,
Gordon
Regarding your MS wire comments, I agree that they are voiced in a manner that makes them very system dependent, not unlike other wire but perhaps to a more extreme degree.
I ended up changing to DH Labs (interconnects and speaker wire) and found DH to have more body and weight in the mid / low bass area, which works quite well in my current system. DH is quite like MS in its transparency, quickness, and sound staging capabilities.
However, some may find Pierre's wire a good match, especially in systems that are voiced on the "warm" side of the equation and / or have some bass response room issues.
Best,
Gordon
JordanD
Well-known member
This thread seems to have died quite a while ago and seeing as I am still interesting in possibly upgrading my spikes with outrigger feet, or not, I thought I might try to revive it quickly.
I see a lot of people talking about the "science" to back up the claims. Now from my experience in science the concept behind the spikes is completely sound and logical... in many cases. The problem is that when you are talking about resonances in chaotic systems crazy things can happen. Anyone who has gone into any higher end mathematics and physics could see this very clearly. For good examples of these concepts you can all draw your gazes to both PDE (partial differential equations), and NLD (Nonlinear Dynamics).
Both of those can help to model these very chaotic systems into a good answer. I don't suppose any of you own some sort of super computer? haha but that fact of the matter is there are often too many variables to account for. So the easiest way to test is to listen and know that the science is holding up.
If you are interested in the topics above I can recommend some very good books, albeit mostly text books, but good books nonetheless.
But back on topic, I was curious if anyone has purchased the outrigger feet and from whom? I have been able to find one company and their prices aren't bad, but I would like to have more then one choice.
I see a lot of people talking about the "science" to back up the claims. Now from my experience in science the concept behind the spikes is completely sound and logical... in many cases. The problem is that when you are talking about resonances in chaotic systems crazy things can happen. Anyone who has gone into any higher end mathematics and physics could see this very clearly. For good examples of these concepts you can all draw your gazes to both PDE (partial differential equations), and NLD (Nonlinear Dynamics).
Both of those can help to model these very chaotic systems into a good answer. I don't suppose any of you own some sort of super computer? haha but that fact of the matter is there are often too many variables to account for. So the easiest way to test is to listen and know that the science is holding up.
If you are interested in the topics above I can recommend some very good books, albeit mostly text books, but good books nonetheless.
But back on topic, I was curious if anyone has purchased the outrigger feet and from whom? I have been able to find one company and their prices aren't bad, but I would like to have more then one choice.
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