Tools of the Trade

[MiTT]

I have 3 complete ML multi-channel systems and I can not and will not get my wife involved for health reasons, my health. What she doesn't know won't hurt me.

I've been meaning to comment on JMAUSGP's sense of humor for awhile. His posts always have some good natured funny content - this one in particular struck me, so much so that I literally sprayed the mouthfull of water I'd just taken all over my monitor and keyboard. I'm still laughing over this one...

 

[User211]

You obviously need to be careful on MLOC, Tim, jokers that we are...

First I give you brain damage with my Sony video... and now this little mishap. I hope your employers' weren't looking!

 

[JMAUSGP]

Actually if Mitt is at work when this happened, he might be able to claim Workmens Comp or at least humoractic disability

 

[TomD]

With all due respect; ARE YOU SERIOUS!! Speakers valued at thousands of dollars and it matters if your within fractions of an inch to optimize performance

If i read this before purchasing the MLs, it may have scared me away.

There is at least two feet difference in leaning back on my couch and sitting up front, as i am doing now while listening and typing. How come i can't hear a difference within that space.

Granted, positioning is important for these rather focused panels. It made a huge difference when I adjusted the speaker angle. This was easily and precisely accomplished by measuring the distance from the outer and inner sides of one speaker to the back wall and matching those measurement to the other speaker; thus matched angles.

If you are fortunate enough to have TOTL or more humble speakers like my Aeon i, we all want optimization. But I just have to say that i am rather perplexed by the need for such accuracy to optimize performance.

 

[RichTeer]

If you are fortunate enough to have TOTL or more humble speakers like my Aeon i, we all want optimization. But I just have to say that i am rather perplexed by the need for such accuracy to optimize performance.

It's all about wringing the last drop of performance out of our gear--a bit like racing car companies that'll do almost anything just to shed an extra gram or two of weight.

 

[JMAUSGP]

With all due respect; ARE YOU SERIOUS!! Speakers valued at thousands of dollars and it matters if your within fractions of an inch to optimize performance

If i read this before purchasing the MLs, it may have scared me away.

There is at least two feet difference in leaning back on my couch and sitting up front, as i am doing now while listening and typing. How come i can't hear a difference within that space.

Granted, positioning is important for these rather focused panels. It made a huge difference when I adjusted the speaker angle. This was easily and precisely accomplished by measuring the distance from the outer and inner sides of one speaker to the back wall and matching those measurement to the other speaker; thus matched angles.

If you are fortunate enough to have TOTL or more humble speakers like my Aeon i, we all want optimization. But I just have to say that i am rather perplexed by the need for such accuracy to optimize performance.

As Rich just said it is all about wringing every last bit of performance out of our electrostatic speakers. As with race cars the higher up the food chain the more optimization counts.

It has been my experience that all Martin Logan Stats require pretty precise positioning for them to perform at the top of their game.

I think the other CLX owners will attest that CLXs are sensitive to the extreme. Throw in the fact that my music system is a 5.1 surround sound system and positioning becomes critical by a factor of six.

Maybe it is because the CLXs are full range panels like CLSs and they react accordingly, but I digress.....

You actually missed the main point of my post and that was simply that one person alone can not get exact measurements as easily or accurately for that matter, while using a hand held tape measurer compared to a laser measurement device.

And the bottom line is that unless you get your speakers aligined properly you just don't know what the sonic difference is. In my case it made all 6 speakers flat out dissappear, leaving super clean sound with lots of air around each and every note.

What can I say I am addicted to the ML sound times six. And now I have the laser to prove

 

[FOUNTAIN]

As Rich just said it is all about wringing every last bit of performance out of our electrostatic speakers. As with race cars the higher up the food chain the more optimization counts.

It has been my experience that all Martin Logan Stats require pretty precise positioning for them to perform at the top of their game.

I think the other CLX owners will attest that CLXs are sensitive to the extreme. Throw in the fact that my music system is a 5.1 surround sound system and positioning becomes critical by a factor of six.

Maybe it is because the CLXs are full range panels like CLSs and they react accordingly, but I digress.....

You actually missed the main point of my post and that was simply that one person alone can not get exact measurements as easily or accurately for that matter, while using a hand held tape measurer compared to a laser measurement device.

And the bottom line is that unless you get your speakers aligined properly you just don't know what the sonic difference is. In my case it made all 6 speakers flat out dissappear, leaving super clean sound with lots of air around each and every note.

What can I say I am addicted to the ML sound times six. And now I have the laser to prove

Great Post!!!!

 

[JMAUSGP]

Tom D,

One other thought after re-reading your post. I know that the exact measurement seems like it can not be that important since as you say you move back and forth on the couch and you can't hear any difference. Which by the way, is probably a true statement.

However, with proper placement, if you can actually find the point that is equidistant between the speakers and then you move back and forth, it really does not matter because assuming you do not rock side to side but only back and forth, then the distance stays equal to both panels even as you move closer and then farther away. I guess that is why we strive to get the panels as exact as possible and this includes the toe-in, which really does benefit from getting it right down to 1/16th of an inch on both the left and right edge of the panel to the front wall. Oh and don't forget the rake.

And then the same is true of the rear panels, toe-in is equally important. And then even the center channel has to be straight on to the listening postion with absolutely no toe-in on either side.

Once you have all that to with in 1/16 of an inch then getting the seating position in the exact center and equidistant to each panel really does make a difference with MLs.:music:

When I first started with MLs, I like you, could not believe it could make that much difference, and for years I over-toed my Stylos. Ok, I made that word up, but it sounds right, unless your wife has six toes then it is a bit insensitive. But I digress..... Then I discovered MLOC and read the Jim Powers flashlight tweak. And low and behold my eyes were opened.

In fact, most of my knowledge of MLs has come from this site and the application of said knowledge from this site with my various MLs. In case someone hasn't said it today, Thanks Tom!:bowdown:

As my grandfather always says......OK he is dead now, so he is not talking as much.....but he used to always say......''That's a long way to get here....What were we talking about?"

 

[TomD]

Yes! Once again i am both enlightened and inspired. I love this audiophilic attitude that permeates this impressive group. Never settle for less and always find ways of improving already outstanding gear.

Did a search, found the flashlight technique, and went to work. The distinct reflection occurred and the speakers were adjusted. However, i don't think that this technique applies to the smaller speakers like my Aeon i.

The light band when adjusted about 2" from the outside of the speaker resulted in the speakers facing away from each other (extreme "toe-out"), and when adjusted near the inside, almost facing each other.

This optimization is not as easy as it seems, but i shall not be deterred. It will take time to position and adjust the angles as for me it is necessary to listen for a while with different music to get a proper feel for the adjustment.

Time well spent IMO. I want my speakers to race with the best too, in their class of course.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Here is another worthy tool that has helped me get the full benefit of performance from my setup. It is used to clean interconnects and speaker wire connections in order to remove any build up that may occur over time. At first I thought this was just a silly idea, but after cleaning all my connectors the other day I was surprised at the difference it made. Sort of like vacuuming your panels after dust builds up, cleaning your interconnects and binding posts are also neccessary as they oxidize. Give a try and see how it works, but for those of you who have large and complicated systems this will be more of an endeavor rather than an hour project. Have fun!!!:devil: