Today is a very sad and frustrating day and I need our experts

[Adamo]

Ok my Tech Guru's, I have a huge problem.
I received that Classe amp as many of you know...I hooked it up cranked it up and .....Nothing...not a peep out of each channel. But when turned up very loud, the right channel made some static noise and some scratchy rendition of the music playing. I turned it off and opened the amp case to find a plug unplugged. I plugged that in, cranked it up and everything was good...for a couple of hours. Then the right channel seemed to lose Dbs until it was almost silent and the left was doing all the duty. Well, I sent the amp to Classe yesterday and today figured I had calmed down from the ordeal enough to hook everything back up to the old set up. Well, low and behold...almost no sound from the right channel still! I changed out ICs thinking maybe one went bad, Changed jumpers, tightened Speaker cables and every other thing I could think of with NO avail. The Right Odyssey is just not outputting anything from the stat it seems. When I just hook up the Right channel, the music plays but I can tell it's through the woofers because the sound is muddy and just bass notes. When reading the SPL meter, the Calibration test tone is 14 Db less than the Left channel when they used to be exact. What in the world happened to the Right channel and what can I do to fix it? Anyone with technical knowledge please chime in here. Especially JonFo who I know has experience with building and rebuilding the speakers. It seems as if the Xover blew or something. When making a diagnosis, please tell me what I need to fix it and how I can test for that being the problem.
Thank you in advance,
Adam

 

[amey01]

Reducing in volume gradually sounds like the stat panel is not charging. Sure it was connected to AC?

Might be the control board that needs replacing in the ML?

I take you have sent your Classé back unnecessarily?

 

[Tube60]

The bias supply might've gone bad, or the panel lost it's conductivity to the membrane. Also, have you unplugged them, and powered them back up? Once in awhile my Sequels sound funky, and a "reboot" seems to help. Additionally, send Jim Power an email. He may know something real specific to your model that could be helpful.

 

[Adamo]

I tried the Reboot a few times with no results. If the amp had sent lots of current and that plug turns out to be part of the DC/AC conversion and wasn't plugged in, what happens to the speaker?
If a control board is bad, is that something that can be replaced easily? I just got these things..I'm not turning around immediately and spending another 200-400 for shipping to Kansas if I can help it. As far as the Classe..I may have sent it back and not needed to..but if it blew one of my MLs..something isn't right there. Remember, it worked beautifully for a few hours before the gradual degredation in sound with the eventual almost zero output from the stat panel. you can put your ear right up to it during music playback and hear almost nothing at all.

 

[Bernard]

My experience is with the SL3, but I expect that with the Odyssey you can remove control boards just as easily, so try swapping control boards between the speakers, to see if the problem moves. A word of caution: make sure they are unplugged for a while before you do the switch as there are some caps there that will zap you, given half a chance. If you are not comfortable doing it, DON'T !

 

[JonFo]

Adamo, bummer, sorry to hear of the problems.

First, I assume you’ve done enough triaging to know that the problem is indeed in the right speaker and not anywhere else in the chain (cables, amps, etc.).

Two things could be going one here:

When you cranked the amp trying to get sound, you overloaded some component in the speaker.
a. Could be something in crossover (blown cap or burnt resistor most likely there).
b. Or fried the ‘Music Sense’ circuit in the high-voltage section

The first is not too likely, as you say it played OK for an hour. A bad cap would be either noticeable or out of circuit, same for a burnt resistor, and no sound would occur. So not likely that.

Given the symptoms (it plays for bit then degrades to nothing), it sounds like a music-sense problem.
The music sense is wired to the high-input terminals and is used to determine if there is a signal, and if there is one, it turns on the high-voltage diaphragm polarization outputs on the main ESL circuit board in the electronics of the speaker.

When first plugged in to the wall (120v AC), the ESL boards power up, but then depends on the music sense circuit to decide to pass AC to the rest of the circuit (this saves the panels from being dust collectors).

So, what to do?

First, retest this theory by unplugging the AC for that speaker for an hour or so.
Then plug it in, and immediately play some music. The panel should reproduce sound and the speaker LED should be on. After 20 minutes to an hour or so, the LED should go off and the Panel will slowly stop making sound.

Second, try and swap the electronics as Bernard suggests. The problem should follow the electronics.
Either way, the ultimate answer is to box up the electronics board (not the whole speaker) and ship that off to the factory for repairs. But only if the tests show that’s the problem.

Let us know the results.

 

[Adamo]

many thanks to all of you who have chimed in. Jon, I will unplug the speaker this morning and leave it that way while I'm at the office. When I return this evening I'll power it on and test your theory. I believe that may be it. Thankfully I won't have to box up the entire speaker and send it in. I sure didn't want to go through the ordeal of having those monsters shipped. I am mechanically inclined, so with the proper direction, I'm sure I can do whatever is needed (in this case removing the board and sending it off).
I'll post results this evening once I have returned from the office. I may try to leave early to test the theory.
Thank you all for being so helpful,
Adam

Edit: I just went down to the theater and powered it on and I got the familiar blue"M" in the right channel which shut off after 30 seconds. The left channel played with no problem. I then went to power down the unit and noticed when I shut down the components one by one, the blue "M" came back. I turned the equipment back on and it stayed blue for about 10 min but no sound at all even when turning the balance on 100% the right channel. Let me add this as well; When the amp started giving the right channel a signal that was distorted, I first thought it was something upstream because I figured the plug fixed everything. When I realized it wasn't any cabling or connection faults, I came back to the amp. I took the right channel speaker cable and unplugged it from the speaker and plugged it into the left speaker and vice versa. I kept the channels correct on the amp. Bingo, the left speaker now displayed the same distortion problem the right had, and now the right sounded great. So the amp was definitely doing something to that right channel the whole time it was on. I'm just hoping that the high current flow blew out the music sensing circuit as Jon described and not something more serious. But that answers the "did you send the amp away without it being broken" question. It definitely had something wrong with the right rail.

 

[ralflar]

Adam, that sucks. I wish you a speedy recovery.

 

[Beakman]

Sorry to here of this misfortune.
Here is a good chance to relate some advise I've been thinking about. I am looking at some vintage and/or used equipment and have an extra pair of relatively cheap mirages which I intend use to test out any equipment before hooking them up to the pricey Vantages.
So for used, or for that matter new additions like I imagine the (now de-)Classe was, It may be good to have some test mules around the house.

 

[Adamo]

Beakman,
I actually have tons of test mules: Martin Logan Ascents, Infinity IL 60s and infinity Beta 50s. I just figured I would have a nice new amp to plug and play.
Who knew...
On the Bright side though...Classe is repairing the amp at no cost to me, and Thanks to the ideas of some members here, and a lengthy call to Jim powers, It seems my Odysseys will be up and running in no time as long as I am up for a bit of DIY. Jim is sending me new transformers for both speakers along with diagrams to replace them. I should be able to accomplish this task during next week and I'll update everyone on the outcome. Jim said it should be relatively painless and is pretty sure that is all that is needed. He was of great help to me today. And I have a second Classe that should be arriving any day now so I do have a few things to look forward to (tries to see silver lining). Ralf, Thanks for the kind words...i'm hoping for a speedy recovery as well. I need my MLs back! I can't take the Ascents from the back of the theater to the front now...they just sold =( I'm seriously going to miss those bad boys. Ascents are fantastic speakers.

 

[Craig]

The good news is that if you're mechanically inclined you can repair faulty or damaged electrical components on these speakers. Just be sure that everything is discharged and assume it isn't when working on it. The hard part is usually the trouble shooting but once you've correctly identified the culprit its a matter of ordering the replacement part and swapping it out in the speaker. Just about the only thing you can't replace is a cabinet. Most parts are available especially for those models that aren't very old like the Odysseys.

Let us know when you get everything in running order and how it sounds. I'm sure you'll have to go through a short break in time especially with the amp.

 

[Adamo]

Kudos to everyone for their help. I have the Odysseys back up and running!
I've been in ML withdrawal for a week now. I received my second Classe CA-201, so I have the system up. The first Classe CA-201 should be back to me after I return from Vacation. So then I will Bridge each and bi-wire to the ML.
1200W of audio bliss. I had thought about the Classe CA-301, but I think two 201s bridged should be better than a single 301. I have taken detailed pictures of the entire surgical procedure and will post them soon.
Cheers! back to the :music:

Adam

 

[Cosmos]

Adam,

Glad to hear you got it back.

What did you end up replacing?

 

[Adamo]

Cosmos,
I've relplaced the FLOGOS transformer on the Odyssey. That's what blew when it received too much DC current. I have to tell you, I was worried jumping into the back of the Odyssey and moving guts and woofers, but it was a better alternative than packing up the monster and shipping it to ML. Jim Powers was super helpful and sent me the pics and schematics he had on hand with detailed instructions on what to clip, remove, and replace.
It went very smoothly, but I won't be replacing the one on the other Odyssey until that one blows even though he sent me two. I just don't want to risk damaging anything if I don't have to do it.
I rocked on to the new Parasound Pre and biwired the Classe using AQ Type 8 last night. I have a hard time telling if I'm sold yet. Bass response was instantly better. Tight, crisp and more pronounced. But I lost some of the smoothness the Classe has. It's midrange and high response is now much more airy and a bit edgier than the single wire format was. But soundstage was larger and more 3 dimensional than the single wire. I found out that one wasn't completely better than the other, they just each had different strengths. When I compare the two though, Even though I love the smooth mids..there are just more positives to the bi-wire than the single wire with jumpers. When the other Classe comes I'll compare Bi-amping to Bi-wiring/Bridged and see which works out better.

 

[JonFo]

…
I've replaced the FLOGOS transformer on the Odyssey. That's what blew when it received too much DC current. ...

Interesting. You fried the main audio step-up transformer in the ESL. I’m surprised an amp could do that, but then again, flow enough current through a coil, and one can exceed the temp parameters and it will melt the wire.

What I’m still puzzled by is that it produced ANY sound for ANY period if that’s the component that fried.

I do recommend you go ahead and install the new transformer in the other speaker as well. If the new units re at all different from the originals (and if made in later years, they could well be), then you have an opportunity for slightly mismatched frequency responses between your speakers at this time.
That’s why Jim sent you two.

Congrats on getting it running again.

 

[Cosmos]

I rocked on to the new Parasound Pre and biwired the Classe using AQ Type 8 last night. I have a hard time telling if I'm sold yet. Bass response was instantly better. Tight, crisp and more pronounced. But I lost some of the smoothness the Classe has. It's midrange and high response is now much more airy and a bit edgier than the single wire format was. But soundstage was larger and more 3 dimensional than the single wire. I found out that one wasn't completely better than the other, they just each had different strengths. When I compare the two though, Even though I love the smooth mids..there are just more positives to the bi-wire than the single wire with jumpers. When the other Classe comes I'll compare Bi-amping to Bi-wiring/Bridged and see which works out better.

Way to Go!:music:

Are you planning on using an active electronic crossover?

 

[Adamo]

John,
I didn't look at it that way. I'm heading to the Gulf of Mexico for 8 days, but will go ahead and take the plunge with the other odyssey. It's not really a difficult ordeal as long as you're careful soldering or stripping the wires to be crimped.

Cosmos,
I may go Active after some time, but I am getting impatient and really just want to have my second Classe returned to me so that I can just Vertically Bi-amp or Bridge/Biwire them and get to some listening in. I really enjoy the Classe and feel it has a very good synergy with the MLs.