The Only Subwoofer

[Hocky]

This definitely interests me much more for movies than musical content. The thing that really puts you in the movie is the heavy bass content, I think, and this thing would surely beat you up. Like I said before, I would love to check it out. I would bet that none of us can really understand what it is like because none of us have ever really experienced significant sub 20hz output.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Todd,

As Bob said, and I agree, the major application for this device would seem to be watching blue ray movies and hearing the accompanying soundtrack.

The vast majority of material contained on movie sound tracks is totally created by sound engineers in an electronic vacuum with the emphasis on impact and reinforcing the visual content that is occurring at the same time. Bombs, gunfire, explosions, car crashes are elements of high end audio? Sorry.

I suspect that most of these engineers have little if any knowledge on how to properly mike and mix a musical performance to optimize the sonic fidelity and capture the sound of the recorded venue in a realistic manner.

And, as previously stated, there is so little music material that contains deep low end energy and very few of those that have, IMO, musical merit. The one example I can think of is Saint Saens Symphony No. 3, otherwise known as the Organ Symphony.

If you consider movie sound tracks and the miniscule amount of musical material that would be reproduced by this sub to be hi end audio, so be it. I respectfully disagree with that premise.

Hopefully that sheds light on my previous post.

GG

 

[rasmaudio]

Passion is the key word

I'm not sure I understand some of these responses. Since when was high-end audio practical or inexpensive? Bob has followed his passion unreservedly and I say kudos to him. Is a rotary sub for everyone? Of course not, but neither are high-end electrostats, battery operated pre-amps, air-bearing TTs, or any of another dozen far-out things a typical marginally-sane audiophile perpetrates.

Bob chased (and has caught) that last hertz. Many of us should be so lucky. And as for there not being enough material? Who said it's all about 1Hz? What about the quality of the LF reproduction in the range where it does positively impact a large cross-section of music? Many of us have JLs, or MLs, or other relatively expensive high-end subs because we care about quality. If the rotary sub represents another step up in quality, well, thank goodness that option exists, even if for a limited number of enthusiasts.

As a side note, I've been refining a CAD design of my retirement home for many months... next step, look to see if integrating a rotary sub is feasible and in parallel, seeking out an installation I can hear/feel for myself.

Cheers

First; thank you for your kind response. You could not have said it better (this forum is not for the average guy on the block who could care less about accurate sound). Here is a photo of a system that I listened to that would have been state of the art, if it were in a great acoustical environment (lousy acoustics). Impractical, but this is the extent that some rich audiophiles go to. I heard the benefits of this system, but the environment ruined the true potential.

 

[Hocky]

Todd,

As Bob said, and I agree, the major application for this device is watching blue ray movies and the accompanying soundtrack.

The vast majority of material contained on movie sound tracks is totally created by sound engineers in an electronic vacuum with the emphasis on impact and reinforcing the visual content that is occurring at the same time. Bombs, gunfire, explosions, car crashes are elements of high end audio? Sorry.

I suspect that most of these engineers have little if any knowledge on how to properly mike and mix a musical performance to optimize the sonic fidelity and capture the sound of the recorded venue in a realistic manner.

And, as previously stated, there is so little music material that contains deep low end energy and very few of those that have, IMO, musical merit. The one example I can think of is Saint Saens Symphony No. 3, otherwise known as the Organ Symphony.

If you consider movie sound tracks and the miniscule amount of musical material that would be reproduced by this sub to be hi end audio, so be it. I respectfully disagree with that premise.

Hopefully that sheds light on my previous post.

GG

Ever wonder why 2ch and HT guys don't get along? lol. To imply that movies do not have significant enough detail to warrant a hifi system is pretty silly. How many tracks do you have encoded in 24/192 in your music library? Most bluray audio is in that high resolution on all channels. Are you listening for the same things in a movie that you would be in music? No, not necessarily, but hifi is hifi. You're still revealing more, presenting better, and provided a more engaging demonstration.

 

[rasmaudio]

A system that a handful of people have heard

Starting from the top is the Hill Plasmas, covering a range from 700 hz to 100,000 hz. Next going down are Apogee stages covering the range from 700 hz down to 200 hz, then Apogee Scintillas going from 200 hz down to 25 hz followed by none other than (2) Eminent Technology's rotary woofers. Every month he has to get replacement tanks of helium for the plasmas to operate. All the power amplifiers are Krell, operating in full class A mode (will heat the entire house up) with all the power you could ever imagine!!!!

 

[rasmaudio]

Rotary subwoofer venting into kitchen

A temporary location for one of the rotary subwoofers!!!!!

 

[tsv_1]

I respectfully disagree with that premise.
GG

I respect your respectful disagreement

However, I'm not sure your response countered my point... that being, it's not necessarily about the deepest depths, but also (and arguably more so) about the quality of the LF reproduction. I haven't heard the fan-sub first hand, but everything I've read about it suggests it is a superior LF transducer versus traditional voice-coil based implementations.

As for what material constitutes "merit"... I don't even see that as an arguable point. To each his own.

With deepest respect,

-tv

 

[tsv_1]

Starting from the top is the Hill Plasmas, covering a range from 700 hz to 100,000 hz. Next going down are Apogee stages covering the range from 700 hz down to 200 hz, then Apogee Scintillas going from 200 hz down to 25 hz followed by none other than (2) Eminent Technology's rotary woofers. Every month he has to get replacement tanks of helium for the plasmas to operate. All the power amplifiers are Krell, operating in full class A mode (will heat the entire house up) with all the power you could ever imagine!!!!

... and that massive lava lamp covering the spectrum up into the nanometer wavelength range... cat's pajamas!

Aren't those plasma tweeters an actual health threat if not properly ventilated (i.e. ozone overdose) ?

 

[Wardsweb]

There will always be someone with less and someone with more...you name it; education, money, health, stuff. Case in point, my sub is bigger than some and smaller than rasmaudio. Time to start a subwoofer funding account.

 

[rasmaudio]

Ozone

... and that massive lava lamp covering the spectrum up into the nanometer wavelength range... cat's pajamas!

Aren't those plasma tweeters an actual health threat if not properly ventilated (i.e. ozone overdose) ?

He told me that with the rich setting of helium that is used for the plasmas there is no threat of ozone. But, one still has to be careful not to look directly at the burning plasma (high UV) for a long period of time because one could possibly injure one's eyes!

 

[Gordon Gray]

Todd,

You are right. I'm not a 7.1 kinda guy but will eventually get into it so I can listen to my multi - channel classical music SACD's.

You are right regarding merit and what is important to one may or may not be important to another.

In my old, conservative way, merit to me is primarily classical and jazz music. I don't consider sound effects like bombs, gunshots, car crashes and such to have merit within my narrow context. Having said that, if you and others do and it gets your hi fi juices flowing, that's fine with me.

GG

 

[twich54]

I've been refining a CAD design of my retirement home for many months... next step, look to see if integrating a rotary sub is feasible and in parallel, seeking out an installation I can hear/feel for myself.

Cheers

Todd......get it for the 'feel', you'll be too old to hear shit !!.......:ROFL:

As for Bob's 'Wankel' Woofer, while I think it's might 'cool'.......it only makes sense when all the rest of the i's are dotted and t's are crossed in one system first, and it appears he's done a nice job with that.

 

[tsmooth]

Wow, I just realized I live about 15 minutes away from you. I would love to experience that sub sometime as I am a huge HT/Bluray fan on my own ML system.

 

[User211]

View attachment 13427

Any idea what the alien probes emanating from the top of the Scintillas are? Also, what are the bits of foil doing on the Scintilla's top left and right?

Sooner or later some KAS-2s should hit my Apogees. Looking forward to it.

 

[tsv_1]

In my old, conservative way, merit to me is primarily classical and jazz music.
GG

Speaking of Jazz, I just today downloaded a hi-rez file from HDTracks that you might find interesting (not sure if you do the audio download thing though?)

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD753607101525

 

[Gordon Gray]

Todd,

Not doing that yet. Will be awhile before I convert to a computer based system.

Highest quality I have is playing SACD's on my Cary CDP. Sounds pretty darn good to me.

We'll see once the MBL's arrive. Called the shipper. Should be here on Monday.

Did you resolve the sub hum?

Gordon

 

[tsv_1]

Todd,

Not doing that yet. Will be awhile before I convert to a computer based system.

Highest quality I have is playing SACD's on my Cary CDP. Sounds pretty darn good to me.

We'll see once the MBL's arrive. Called the shipper. Should be here on Monday.

Did you resolve the sub hum?

Gordon

We're all waiting to vicariously see/behold/experience your MBL acquisition. You should start a thread so we can follow along with minimal search pain. Plus we'll want to read all of Justin's comparitive remarks about anything non-Apogee - and this will be fertile ground

On the music server front, keep in mind that there are good options for servers that don't necessarily rely on computers. My Olive HD has been the sort of thing I don't know how I lived without prior to acquisition. The near instantaneous selection of my entire library is like a whole new world. Think iPod ease-of-use but audiophile quality source files. It's what digital audio playback was meant to be. No more fumbling around with discs (after ripping), no more missing discs or empty jackets, no more wondering if your buddy who borrowed a disc ever returned it. And the ability to download anything up to 24/192 and play it back in just the few minutes it takes to import the file. Anyway, you can tell making the jump to Server-world has made an impression on me.

On my sub... yep, seems like it was a combo of a faulty cable and grounding issues. Even so, I'm going to go audition a Paradigm Sub 1 tomorrow(hopefully). "There ain't no rest for the wicked."

Cheers and have a great weekend,

-tv


p.s. here's the disc I downloaded in actual disc format... and I should add that this is really more a mix of jazz and soul and even a little funk... doesn't really lend itself to any particular category.
http://www.amazon.com/Cab-Calloway-...2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1295664978&sr=1-2-spell

 

[Gordon Gray]

tv,

Not going to post much on the MBL's. I suspect it will be an entirely different perspective. Will provide some general comments once I have a handle on their sound but that's about it.

Just feels strange at this point after having ML's for some twenty years. But thank you for the interest.

GG

 

[JonFo]

The only true subwoofer that goes from 25 hz down to below 1 hz. In my 50 years as a audiophile this subwoofer puts every other subwoofer to shame in very low bass, power, and most important, transient response. Pipe organs, very large drums hit hard to all the sound effects (thunder, explosions, the T-rex dinosaur in Jurassic Park and rockets taking off. Eminent Technology TRW-17 Rotary Subwoofer

Bob, first, thanks for sharing, it's a wonderful sub and good to see you are enjoying it.

Infinite Baffle subs rule! And the TRW-17 is the King. :bowdown:

What sub(s) are you using for >25Hz?

My dilemma is how to marry my existing IB sub and a rotary. Are you aware of anyone doing that config yet?

 

[RUR]

Jonathan, see Tony's (bassment @ this link, tzucc @ AVS) ongoing blog here. Uses 2 TRW, 2 Wilson XS and 2 Watchdogs integrated with a Lake. Steve et al @ WBF know him well.