Solid State or Tubes
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adeep42
Well-known member
Mono blocs are almost always better than the equivalent stereo amp. I love my tube mono blocs.
PaulRS
Member
Click-bait to be sure. It depends on what you listen for. I have both Aerius and Montis and have driven both from tube (PRS) and solid state (Bryston). I like the tubes better. Maybe it's the higher output impedance, but the tube amps throw a much wider and deeper soundstage. I notice little difference in timbre- yes, sometimes the tubes are a bit warmer/richer, but it's slight compared to having the music 'come alive', detached from the speakers.
My experience with transition from solid state to tubes is similar to the posts above, love it!
My combo with solid state was great, but now it's the greatest and I'm going to the grave with these amps and Expressions. No desire whatsoever to change.
My combo with solid state was great, but now it's the greatest and I'm going to the grave with these amps and Expressions. No desire whatsoever to change.
the 'general consensus' is that tube amplification can / will roll off the top end. A lot of variables will come into play for this to be readily apparent, room acoustics, amp selection(specs) and most importantly ones auditory ability to hear high enough into the roll off freq range.
Myself, while I love good tube amplification, drove my Spire's with a pair of Rogue M-180's, I have now gone back to SS (Pass X260.8's) to drive my Revel Studio 2's. I will not part with my 260.8's until it's time to downsize.
Myself, while I love good tube amplification, drove my Spire's with a pair of Rogue M-180's, I have now gone back to SS (Pass X260.8's) to drive my Revel Studio 2's. I will not part with my 260.8's until it's time to downsize.
roberto
Well-known member
Hola...well, I am using my system with tubes (I use Conrad Johnson One Twenty SE) and I have a carton shoe box next to my chair. Everytime that I get there to listen to the music, I put $1.00 inside the carton box for a future tube replacement when they (I do not know when) be needed to be replaced. It's a back up money. The other day I counted the money there and I have $ 756.00. Right now, I have a little bit more. The quality sound is breathtaking to my ears, and still getting a lot of goosebumps while listening to these fantastic musician(s) playing for me here, in my own batcave. Servicing tube gear could be done by the user, a thing that it is forbidden for a normal user with SS. If you have a failure in SS, watch for your wallet!!! It will cost some money too. Both medias someday might need service. And the quality sound is amazing with my Conrad Johnson. The best sound that I ever had and never before. I had Levinson, (big service SS problem and very $$$$), and also Krell. MacIntosh SS too. I have in the storage room a SS Audio Research, and the transistors are very expensive and hard to find. The Company does not help with non warranty goods.
I agreed that by sometime, the tubes might need to be replaced...right now, I have a saving of 2 times the cost of my power tubes, and these are still running with great sound and power.
Happy listening!
I agreed that by sometime, the tubes might need to be replaced...right now, I have a saving of 2 times the cost of my power tubes, and these are still running with great sound and power.
Happy listening!
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That dollar idea is great! Love it!
roberto
Well-known member
Thanks ttcos,
I just wanted to add something. Our beloved speakers, Martin Logan, carries a warranty for 5 years. Panels and power supplies still are the main failure. Same thing happens to most electronic gear. Sometimes they do have service issues. But the pleasure that I get when I listen to my system, that hours spent there, are the nourishment of my soul, my Spirit. And It dances a lot while I am listening to the music with outstanding timbre, air between the musical instruments and voices, a wide stage with a truly sense of 3D, having the cymbals where the drummer is, not in front of me. Being a musician too, make my ears to hear different than most of you. I am not saying that I am a better listener. What I am saying that there are some little things that are important for me, as understanding the left hand vs the right hand on a piano player, or distinguish easy where the guitar player is plucking the strings at what fret and which string. This is a very easy test with ML gear and of course, the marvellous help with the tubes. Also I love to have the percussionist there... not having some musical notes projected next to me. My ears are old, and perhaps many of you have a better hearing frequency response than mines. But what I seek is naturalness. I do go to listen live unplugged music. This is my ears´ tool. I have my Spanish guitars and one of each of them have their own magic and sound. So, my parameters might differ from yours, and I assure you that what I am trying is to have the musicians playing for me here...I really enjoy them a lot! I listen to classical and jazz...other type of music is very occasional. I enjoy all genres of music, but no reggaeton. Folk, country, easy listening, chill out, etc are ok... Good rock bands like Pink Floyd, Beatles, Eric Clapton, Eagles, etc, of course I do...
Please, this is my liking, and not necessary must be yours. I do not want to enter in a nowhere discussion of liking. I respect all your liking.
Happy listening!
This is my liking, and not necessary yours.
I just wanted to add something. Our beloved speakers, Martin Logan, carries a warranty for 5 years. Panels and power supplies still are the main failure. Same thing happens to most electronic gear. Sometimes they do have service issues. But the pleasure that I get when I listen to my system, that hours spent there, are the nourishment of my soul, my Spirit. And It dances a lot while I am listening to the music with outstanding timbre, air between the musical instruments and voices, a wide stage with a truly sense of 3D, having the cymbals where the drummer is, not in front of me. Being a musician too, make my ears to hear different than most of you. I am not saying that I am a better listener. What I am saying that there are some little things that are important for me, as understanding the left hand vs the right hand on a piano player, or distinguish easy where the guitar player is plucking the strings at what fret and which string. This is a very easy test with ML gear and of course, the marvellous help with the tubes. Also I love to have the percussionist there... not having some musical notes projected next to me. My ears are old, and perhaps many of you have a better hearing frequency response than mines. But what I seek is naturalness. I do go to listen live unplugged music. This is my ears´ tool. I have my Spanish guitars and one of each of them have their own magic and sound. So, my parameters might differ from yours, and I assure you that what I am trying is to have the musicians playing for me here...I really enjoy them a lot! I listen to classical and jazz...other type of music is very occasional. I enjoy all genres of music, but no reggaeton. Folk, country, easy listening, chill out, etc are ok... Good rock bands like Pink Floyd, Beatles, Eric Clapton, Eagles, etc, of course I do...
Please, this is my liking, and not necessary must be yours. I do not want to enter in a nowhere discussion of liking. I respect all your liking.
Happy listening!
This is my liking, and not necessary yours.
So, after 4 months of tube amps driving my Expressions, there's this question I have for which I have not seen an answer:
Why do tube amps work so well for my electrostatic panels when looking at specifications on paper there would appear to be a mis-match between amp output impedance and the low impedance of the panel?
With solid state, I've only had success with amps which have low output impedance and was under the impression that I'd need the same kind of specification for tube amps, but apparently I was wrong. There's got to be "something" going on which makes amp and panel happy.
I expected to have at least some problems somewhere, but no problems at all. None. Absolutely as happy as I could ever have dreamed to ever be with sound coming out of speakers. I don't get it, but I'm very happy with the results! I would simply like to understand "why?".
Why do tube amps work so well for my electrostatic panels when looking at specifications on paper there would appear to be a mis-match between amp output impedance and the low impedance of the panel?
With solid state, I've only had success with amps which have low output impedance and was under the impression that I'd need the same kind of specification for tube amps, but apparently I was wrong. There's got to be "something" going on which makes amp and panel happy.
I expected to have at least some problems somewhere, but no problems at all. None. Absolutely as happy as I could ever have dreamed to ever be with sound coming out of speakers. I don't get it, but I'm very happy with the results! I would simply like to understand "why?".
tooslowmonroe
Member
Another fan of tubes on panels here. Old SL3's with Jolida JD-1000 running the panels. I actually run the woofers with SS NAK amp. One thing that I love is the ability to tweak with tubes. You are able to get much more personal sound by experimenting with different tube combinations. Each and every time I sit down and listen, I can't believe how my system makes me feel.
amey01
Well-known member
I reckon!
Great stuff - you're thinking of changing amp! Good luck to you. Have a good listen to your proposed amp, and if you think it is suitably better performing, go for it! Enjoy your music.
What is there to be asking?
amey01
Well-known member
Interesting question to which I'd love to hear some thoughts.
Electrically, they are a mis-match - and the output transformer makes it even more complex.
Are you sure they "work so well" - or is it just delusion? I wouldn't know - I use solid-state.
I don't know - but I'd love to hear some input.
What I do know, is that when I've heard valve amps with my 'Logans, they have not sounded as good as the SS alternatives (I came very close to buying an ARC VT-60 many years ago, but I couldn't justify it when my current Classé outperformed it in every way [except, perhaps, the pretty glow emanating from the chassis]). But on the flipside - I've heard great things from valve amps with other speakers.
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If it's "delusion", then it's contagious because others that have heard my system comparing the tubes vs solid state all come away with the same comment: Music seems more "real" with the tubes.
With Krell I was very happy for years, but . . . . There was always the big BUT. The but was - could it be better?
Early this year I embarked on an educational quest to find out if I should seek monos, or tubes, or simply bigger. I borrowed solid state amps so I could try them in my house, which only confirmed how happy I was with Krell. I got some nice demos of tubes including Conrad Johnson but not with stats. After several months I was most excited about Conrad Johnson tube amps and the dealer was offering to bring amps to my house for a final demo. Some people I know are fond of Bob Latino amps (which I had come across about 4 years ago but wasn't really ready for tube education at the time) and I decided it was time for a little electronics hobby fun. So I built a couple amps. I was expecting to lose a little money on this experiment but the education wasn't going to cost me much, so I was willing to go through it. Upon the first listening of the new tube kits I kept thinking "it can't really sound this good when I'm able to increase the volume after some break-in, could it"? The answer is yes. After about 100 hours I compared against the Krell and while the Krell sounded great, the tubes sounded more alive. On several other occasions I repeated the comparison with friends and the result was the same. One of them, a solid state guy, just last week ordered a pair of Carver 350's.
Since May of this year I have not had a single thought of wanting any other speaker or amplifier. I've never felt this way before. Total satisfaction.
I'd love to be able to measure what's going on so there can be some science involved here but I'm not sure how to go about it. I have a need to know.
With Krell I was very happy for years, but . . . . There was always the big BUT. The but was - could it be better?
Early this year I embarked on an educational quest to find out if I should seek monos, or tubes, or simply bigger. I borrowed solid state amps so I could try them in my house, which only confirmed how happy I was with Krell. I got some nice demos of tubes including Conrad Johnson but not with stats. After several months I was most excited about Conrad Johnson tube amps and the dealer was offering to bring amps to my house for a final demo. Some people I know are fond of Bob Latino amps (which I had come across about 4 years ago but wasn't really ready for tube education at the time) and I decided it was time for a little electronics hobby fun. So I built a couple amps. I was expecting to lose a little money on this experiment but the education wasn't going to cost me much, so I was willing to go through it. Upon the first listening of the new tube kits I kept thinking "it can't really sound this good when I'm able to increase the volume after some break-in, could it"? The answer is yes. After about 100 hours I compared against the Krell and while the Krell sounded great, the tubes sounded more alive. On several other occasions I repeated the comparison with friends and the result was the same. One of them, a solid state guy, just last week ordered a pair of Carver 350's.
Since May of this year I have not had a single thought of wanting any other speaker or amplifier. I've never felt this way before. Total satisfaction.
I'd love to be able to measure what's going on so there can be some science involved here but I'm not sure how to go about it. I have a need to know.
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Steelhead
Well-known member
tubes/ss
Will throw in my hat for tubes with logans.
I have cj 12 mono blocks powering my Summits on top. A lot of fun and long term listening sessions with them. NEVER get tired of listening to my system.
Had reQuests and a premier 11a but that was under-powered and had limited dynamics and had to go to more tube power. The person that bought my reQuests had big SS Mac amp and that sure helped them. I am not anti-SS but just think tubes are a more immersive listening experience in MOST cases.
Went over to a friends with modded K horns and SET's and that was a beautiful listening experience.
I have listened to innumerable stereo setups for decades. For this listener - Tubes please
Happy listening
Will throw in my hat for tubes with logans.
I have cj 12 mono blocks powering my Summits on top. A lot of fun and long term listening sessions with them. NEVER get tired of listening to my system.
Had reQuests and a premier 11a but that was under-powered and had limited dynamics and had to go to more tube power. The person that bought my reQuests had big SS Mac amp and that sure helped them. I am not anti-SS but just think tubes are a more immersive listening experience in MOST cases.
Went over to a friends with modded K horns and SET's and that was a beautiful listening experience.
I have listened to innumerable stereo setups for decades. For this listener - Tubes please
Happy listening
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