small room

[Nikos]

I have the opportunity to use a small room 12x9' as a dedicated av room.
Can I use my ML puritys in such a small room?
I prefere my panels at least 3' from the front wall and I don't like hi freq absorbers behind the panels (the soundstage is getting smaller).
I will use absorbers (maybe diffusers?) behind my listening position.
(80% 2 channel sound 20% 5.1)

any thoughts?

Thanks

Nikos

 

[Ethan Winer]

In a room that size you can use diffusion to make it seem larger. But you still need plenty of bass trapping, and some mid/high frequency absorption at the reflection points.

--Ethan

 

[Nikos]

thanks Ethan.
I will try and I will post here again...

 

[JonFo]

In a room that size you can use diffusion to make it seem larger. But you still need plenty of bass trapping, and some mid/high frequency absorption at the reflection points.

--Ethan

Sorry to disagree Ethan, but the smaller the room, the MORE one needs to attenuate the rear wave of a line-source dipole. Diffusion, depending on where it is, but especially behind the speakers, could hinder the sound.

The problem is that with the speakers very close to the wall, the reflected energy from the rear wave will likely be well within the 5ms window for affecting phase response and of course, to cause significant comb-filtering.

Nikos, for a small room like that, I’d recommend the following:

• Absorb the rear wave, this let’s you place your speakers closer to the wall.
• Add bass trapping, as Ethan correctly notes, a small room needs plenty, so load-up.
• Remember that the wall ceiling junctures are ideal locations for bass trapping in a small room, as they don’t chew-up valuable floor or wall space. The RealTraps corner Mondo trap is ideal for these locations.
• Diffusion could be added, but mainly on the ceiling, use of RPG skylines over the listening position might be OK.
• Side walls should have a mixture of attenuation, like the RFZ products, plus experiment with a bit of diffusion, as a totally dead room might ‘focus’ the sound a bit too much (but depends on your tastes).

Hope that helps.

 

[Nikos]

Nikos, for a small room like that, I’d recommend the following:

• Absorb the rear wave, this let’s you place your speakers closer to the wall.
• Add bass trapping, as Ethan correctly notes, a small room needs plenty, so load-up.
• Remember that the wall ceiling junctures are ideal locations for bass trapping in a small room, as they don’t chew-up valuable floor or wall space. The RealTraps corner Mondo trap is ideal for these locations.
• Diffusion could be added, but mainly on the ceiling, use of RPG skylines over the listening position might be OK.
• Side walls should have a mixture of attenuation, like the RFZ products, plus experiment with a bit of diffusion, as a totally dead room might ‘focus’ the sound a bit too much (but depends on your tastes).

Hope that helps.

thank you again Jo.
I think that list has to be a "sticky"... something like "small room treatments" at the top of this part of the forum...
so you think too that I can "squize" my puritys in that room.
I will try and then I will make a new thread, Vista in a small room....
(I am saving money...)

 

[Nikos]

ok, what's the minimum distance (panel to the wall) from the front wall that will give me adequate soundstage using mid and high freq absorbers?

 

[Ethan Winer]

Sorry to disagree Ethan

No disagreement at all. I was addressing this:

"(maybe diffusers?) behind my listening position."

I totally agree with absorption being the right choice behind the speakers.

--Ethan

 

[JonFo]

No disagreement at all. I was addressing this:

"(maybe diffusers?) behind my listening position."

I totally agree with absorption being the right choice behind the speakers.

--Ethan

Ah!, got it.

But regarding a diffuser behind the listener, I believe there is a guideline to have a minimum of 4' or so between listener and diffuser, right?

If one is within 3' of wall behind, I usual prefer absorption just behind (as usually there's too much low-frequency reinforcement at that distance as well), plus the short reflections (<6ms) confuse the imaging.

Diffusion generally works best when the scatter has at least 8ms of delay as compared to the main arrival.

 

[Ethan Winer]

But regarding a diffuser behind the listener, I believe there is a guideline to have a minimum of 4' or so between listener and diffuser, right?

The "rule" is you should be at least one foot away for each inch of diffusor depth. After doing a lot of listening I'm not sure I agree. Even a few inches away as shown in my Diffusion video sounds far better than a bare wall. I also think that some of the conventional wisdom about diffusion is wrong, though with my poor math skills I may not be qualified technically to have such opinions!

As I see it, much of the benefit from diffusion has little to do with scattering, and more to do with simply staggering the reflections so they're less coherent. That alone reduces comb filtering.

When my company first started offering diffusors I was working on the music for one of my videos. I worked every evening on the music over many months, so I tried three diffusors on stands at various distances behind me. (My home studio is 34 feet front to back.) Even with them right behind my chair I heard nothing objectionable.

--Ethan