Question

[FOUNTAIN]

Recently I borrowed an Ayre P-5xe phono preamp from my dealer for the weekend and it looks as if it will be a keeper. The only problem I can see is the multiple conversions that are taking place from unbalanced to balanced between my TT and preamp. The turntable has only a rca connection and there is not a balanced version as of yet for this model. The question: What is the best way to convert the single ended cable to a balanced connection? As it sits now the conversion is unbalanced into the Phono preamp where it is converted to a balanced signal then reconverted back to an unbalanced signal. Then it travels to the preamp where it again is converted from an unbalanced to a balanced signal. If I am understanding this correctly then there are three times where the conversion takes place which I'm sure can't be healthy for this tiny signal. My idea was to either purchase a cable where it is single ended on the TT end and an XLR connector on the Phono preamp input end or use an adaptor. Then purchase a pair of balanced output cables to go from the Phono preamp to the preamp. This way, if I understand correctly, the signal will only be converted one time and will remain balanced the rest of the way. Is this correct? Are there better ways to accomplish what I've just described? All of my other componets are balanced with the exception of the TT. Thanks for any advice you can give.

Glen

 

[spectral]

My idea was to either purchase a cable where it is single ended on the TT end and an XLR connector on the Phono preamp input end. Then purchase a pair of balanced output cables to go from the Phono preamp to the preamp. This way, if I understand correctly, the signal will only be converted one time and will remain balanced the rest of the way. Is this correct?

Glen

Yes that's correct - see the Ayre manual as I mentioned in another thread. Also, Aqvox also offers adaptors and I am sure they are not the only ones.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Which is a better approach, an adapter that I would plug my rca cable into that has an XLR end or have a cable custom made with a single ended connection on one end and an XLR connection on the other end?

Glen

 

[MiTT]

BAT makes similar adapters, and I'm sure you could get someone to manufacture a cable with a single ended connector on one end and a balanced connector on the other end.

However, as I've mentioned here a number of times in the past, simply changing the connector type doesn't really buy you anything. A Balanced circuit is a balanced circuit. Simply running a single ended signal through a balanced connection doesn't magically tranform it into a balanced signal, it would simply be a single ended circuit feeding a balanced connection, so you really don't accomplish any "upgrade" until you leave your phone stage via a true differential (balanced) circuit. All of your machinations to supply a balanced connection to the input of your phono stage will be for nothing at the end of the day I'm afraid.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Thanks Tim for your reply. I may be misunderstanding you, but are you saying that once the signal is unbalanced then it can never be converted back to a balanced signal again? All of my componets, except the TT, is fully differential balanced from the Phono preamp all the way to the amp. So if the phono preamp takes in a converted signal from unbal. to bal. and then remains balanced through the rest of the chain then wouldn't this be beneficial? Or is it impossible to ever go back to balanced once it has changed? I know the Ayre componets convert all unbalanced input signals into a balanced one but with my phono pre I have to use the unbalanced output to the preamp. Hope this makes some sense. Thanks again.


Glen

 

[Audioseduction]

BAT makes similar adapters, and I'm sure you could get someone to manufacture a cable with a single ended connector on one end and a balanced connector on the other end.

However, as I've mentioned here a number of times in the past, simply changing the connector type doesn't really buy you anything. A Balanced circuit is a balanced circuit. Simply running a single ended signal through a balanced connection doesn't magically tranform it into a balanced signal, it would simply be a single ended circuit feeding a balanced connection, so you really don't accomplish any "upgrade" until you leave your phone stage via a true differential (balanced) circuit. All of your machinations to supply a balanced connection to the input of your phono stage will be for nothing at the end of the day I'm afraid.

That is for sure! As I start off from my source "Esoteric X-03SE" patched into my pre-amp "Pass Labs X1" then to my amp being "Pass Labs X350.5". It is a true differential balanced circuit thru and thru. I would not wast the money for a adaptor when it won't make any differance in performance except more crap between the TT and Phono Pre.

 

[Audioseduction]

Thanks Tim for your reply. I may be misunderstanding you, but are you saying that once the signal is unbalanced then it can never be converted back to a balanced signal again? All of my componets, except the TT, is fully differential balanced from the Phono preamp all the way to the amp. So if the phono preamp takes in a converted signal from unbal. to bal. and then remains balanced through the rest of the chain then wouldn't this be beneficial? Or is it impossible to ever go back to balanced once it has changed? I know the Ayre componets convert all unbalanced input signals into a balanced one but with my phono pre I have to use the unbalanced output to the preamp. Hope this makes some sense. Thanks again.


Glen

He is saying that the TT does not have the electronics to support “differential balanced” circuit.

 

[tonepub]

What kind of table do you have?

You can get tonearm cables wired in balanced mode, as a cartridge (like headphones) is a true balanced device. The Aqvox, BAT VK10SE and a number of others have balance inputs as well as outputs.

Running your table in balanced mode all the way through will give you a touch quieter overall system, if your preamp is fully balanced.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

so you really don't accomplish any "upgrade" until you leave your phone stage via a true differential (balanced) circuit. All of your machinations to supply a balanced connection to the input of your phono stage will be for nothing at the end of the day I'm afraid.

If I understand my instructions correctly for the P-5xe, I'll reread them tonight, the signal will become fully balanced once it enters into the input of my phono pre. Wouldn't I want to keep it this way for the rest of its signal path through the audio chain? Once the signal enters the phono stage using the rca inputs I have to output it through the rca ouputs as well. This means it goes from unbal. to bal. inside the phono stage, then back to unbal. as it leaves the phono stage then to bal. again when the signal enters into the preamp. So all would not be for naught if I use an adaptor or custom cable that would allow me to use the balanced inputs of the phono pre which allows me then to use the balanced outputs, keeping the signal truly balanced with only one conversion. Right? Or am I missing something? If I find out that the Ayre phono stage will accept an unbalanced input and then output a balanced signal then all I would need is one pair of balanced cables for the output. But I don't think this is the way it works, leaving me the alternative to using an adaptor or custom cable so I can use the balanced inputs and outputs.

In short I am not trying to convert the unbalanced signal from the TT through the adaptor, but rather my goal is to access the XLR input of the phono stage so that once the signal enters into the phono stage it will be converted inside to a truly balanced signal and then remain truly balanced for the rest of its journey. Hopefully some of this makes sense. If my reasoning is correct then all I need to decide is whether or not to use an adaptor or a custom cable for the purest signal path. Thanks again for your help.


Glen

 

[FOUNTAIN]

What kind of table do you have?

You can get tonearm cables wired in balanced mode, as a cartridge (like headphones) is a true balanced device. The Aqvox, BAT VK10SE and a number of others have balance inputs as well as outputs.

Running your table in balanced mode all the way through will give you a touch quieter overall system, if your preamp is fully balanced.

Hello Jeff,

My table is the Well Tempered Amadeus. I have plans to find out whether this table can be rewired for a balanced ouput, but I thought it might be more economical to go the other route first. But this may not end up being the case. In either senario though my cables will have to be replaced or reterminated to balanced cables. So my plan was to change out the cables now and then have my table rewired later down the road if it is doable. Thanks again.

Glen

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Ok. I just went back and reread the instructions again, and it appears that I was mistaken. I can use the XLR outputs even if the input is through the unbalanced connection. However, the instructions do reccommend using a custom cable as the best solution with an XLR on the phono stage end and a rca connection on the TT end with my particular setup. I'm not sure why this would be the case, but it looks like if I had read the instructions a little slower then I could have answered my own question. Thanks for all those who chimed in.


Glen

 

[Bernard]

Ok. I just went back and reread the instructions again, and it appears that I was mistaken. I can use the XLR outputs even if the input is through the unbalanced connection. However, the instructions do reccommend using a custom cable as the best solution with an XLR on the phono stage end and a rca connection on the TT end with my particular setup. I'm not sure why this would be the case, but it looks like if I had read the instructions a little slower then I could have answered my own question. Thanks for all those who chimed in.


Glen

Glen, as Tonepub has indicated, a cartridge is a true balanced component, so what you should do is check with your TT mfr to see if they have an XLR termination box to replace your current unbalanced one. If they do, you can run balanced all the way.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Glen, as Tonepub has indicated, a cartridge is a true balanced component, so what you should do is check with your TT mfr to see if they have an XLR termination box to replace your current unbalanced one. If they do, you can run balanced all the way.

A couple of months ago I checked into the option of an XLR junction box for my TT and as of then there were no plans to offer one from the manufacturer. However, things can change and if they see an interest in owners wanting this feature then they may offer it as an option like VPI does. So I will call my dealer first thing tommorrow and check with him about this possibility. Thanks.


Glen