Preface Placment Help

[Jimna]

Hi Im working on acoustically tuning my listening room and have been advised by an acoustic engineer that i should find out the dispersion specs and general placement recomendations for my Preface speakers. He informed me of the none standard placement of all ML speakers and that i cant fine tune the last 10% without this info. i do know the Preface's arent the standard ML speaker either, so can anyone help me on this?

FWIW, my room is 12'w x25'l x 8' high.


thanks, Jim


:music:

 

[roberto]

Hi Im working on acoustically tuning my listening room and have been advised by an acoustic engineer that i should find out the dispersion specs and general placement recomendations for my Preface speakers. He informed me of the none standard placement of all ML speakers and that i cant fine tune the last 10% without this info. i do know the Preface's arent the standard ML speaker either, so can anyone help me on this?

FWIW, my room is 12'w x25'l x 8' high.


thanks, Jim


:music:

Hola Jimna...just use the manual recommendation...at least two feet away of their's back wall (to my liking 3 feet is the right place) and the separation between them should be less apart than you listening position. Also you should be at least two feet away of your back wall, this way, you will not have too much bass energy. As a start point, make 1/3 of the inner side of each speaker face your sitting position. This array will give good image, but you have to experiment there, to get the most of them...what I like, not necessary is your liking, happy listening, and welcome to our ML family!
Roberto.

 

[Jimna]

thanks Roberto! i did even more positioning with them again last night and think your right reguarding the 1/3 side of speaker innner facing, i had less and i believe the toe in was to much. my image has greatly improved and the left & right have seemed to disappeared.

i guess my post was probing for other Preface owners and their experiences, but there doesnt seem to be many here. am i the bottom rung of the ML ladder?

 

[TomDac]

Glad you got them dialed in and they are disappearing...

Welcome to the MLC.

 

[roberto]

thanks Roberto! i did even more positioning with them again last night and think your right reguarding the 1/3 side of speaker innner facing, i had less and i believe the toe in was to much. my image has greatly improved and the left & right have seemed to disappeared.

i guess my post was probing for other Preface owners and their experiences, but there doesnt seem to be many here. am i the bottom rung of the ML ladder?

Now another tweak...make the front of them be at least 1/2 inch taller than its back. moving their feet. They should be like lean to their back...this will improve your image also...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[gordonmenninger]

Now another tweak...make the front of them be at least 1/2 inch taller than its back. moving their feet. They should be like lean to their back...this will improve your image also...happy listening,
Roberto.

hmmm, i thought they were supposed to be totally straight up and down / vertical for best performance... I was able to to this by raising up the rear of the speaker a bit. Any thoughts??

 

[Jimna]

hmmm, i thought they were supposed to be totally straight up and down / vertical for best performance... I was able to to this by raising up the rear of the speaker a bit. Any thoughts??

this is my experience too. i tried both ways this weekend and actually found that more vertical was the perferred position. i do have my speakers off the ground 2' though, this was my one major comprimise with my wife as she wants to keep the furnature in the room so a group can hangout so the speakers need lifted to clear the couches, but i think this elevation plays into the more vertical preference in my situation.

 

[rw_designs]

My Placement so far...

I have not placed the spikes onto mine yet as I am not so sure they are optimum in placement and don't want to dig up the carpet. I have my Prefaces about 7 feet apart and 8-9 feet from where I listen. They are a little over two feet from the front wall and on the floor.

My listening area couch is against the wall so I sit about a foot away from the back wall.

The fronts of the speakers are slightly toed in maybe a couple inches. I don't know what 1/3 the side means???

I don't know how to make them disappear or even what you guys mean by that. I really would like them placed right they sound great but have not disappeared. The soundstage seems to go aside them a couple feet depending on the recording.

Here is how they look right now. My listening area is about three feet past where the coffee table ends in the bottom right corner of the picture. The coffee table I don't know what to do with it yet. Some say I should move it out. The right side speaker is almost ten inches from the corner of a couch I can't move it's a "L" shaped sectional. Kind of stuck with this situation for now and not sure how to optimize it. What do you guys think?

 

[Jimna]

hi Ron! the best advice i can give you is to simply try every posibility. since your not spiking them yet you might want to elevate them a little and see how you like that. try everything, wide split, close together, toe in, no toe at all, close to the front wall, pulled out into th room, ect... eventually you will get an ear for what you like best. remember your opinion is all that matters. when i did the most of my critcal listening for position i did use the same souce to eliminate differences in records etc.

as for the "disappear" comment, basically your looking for the pair to play as one. neither speaker is heard more predomonantly than the other, they disappear into a single coherent source of sound.

as for the room, i understand the things you cant change, just focus on the stuff you can influence like moving the coffee table. again, just try it and see what you think.

hope that helps.

 

[rw_designs]

As a start point, make 1/3 of the inner side of each speaker face your sitting position.

Roberto - what does this mean? What am I doing physically with the speaker for this?

I have them placed pretty much by what the manual says but still hear sound from each speaker while hearing it everywhere else too in images. Soundstage is wider than the speakers are apart.

Thank you!
Ron

 

[rw_designs]

try everything, wide split, close together, toe in, no toe at all, close to the front wall, pulled out into th room, ect... eventually you will get an ear for what you like best.

...as for the "disappear" comment, basically your looking for the pair to play as one. neither speaker is heard more predomonantly than the other, they disappear into a single coherent source of sound.

as for the room, i understand the things you cant change, just focus on the stuff you can influence like moving the coffee table. again, just try it and see what you think.

hope that helps.

Jim,

Did some work last night. Sounded awesome on a live HD FM broadcast of the CSO.
I have them slightly toed in and very similar to the manual directions. I have not raised them up yet I have no idea what to place them on or how high. I am hearing the speakers themselves and sound all around and between them. ***There is no getting away from hearing each speaker at times.***

Coffee table is next.

Thanks so much Jim!

 

[rw_designs]

If it helps any...

I have removed the coffee table from the front of the couch. Now there is a large 36 square foot open area in front of the speakers and my listening position.

The sound has opened up into the room in a very big way its just hard to describe. There is just so much more sound here, there and everywhere.

You guys are very good....

Now what to do with all the stuff that was on the table and where to set that glass of wine. Looks like I have created a monster. Also I have to mention I cleaned the rug. So who cares right? Yeah this sounds very nice for sure. These speakers are a masterpiece.
Thank you so much really fellas! I will keep tweaking but now I am off to listen. Now that I have done this there is more placement work to be done that has become quite obvious. Some of the bass has gone away and with it some brightness has come. It could just be this particular SACD. The entire carpet vibrates through my feet with the bass which tells me I need to spike them up right? Lets see.

Jim your cave is so very cool.

 

[rw_designs]

I visited a local stereo shop tonight and one of the istening rooms was full of Marantz and ML high end speakers including the Preface. I was taken back by the placements. They were set up just like mine same distance apart and from the front wall (2ft). The speakers were 7-8ft apart and the same toe in. They must have had 30k in Reference Marantz gear in that room. The couch was even the same distance from the speakers.

The es panel types were placed approximately the same only next to the Prefaces. The sound was killer. There were foam panels placed five or so feet high in each of the front two corners.

So having spent some weeks tweaking mine around (they are placed the same) I came home tonight and spiked mine right where they were.

All I can say is wow. The sound is more alive and imaging is fluid. The bass is very refined now. It was cool seeing the setup in a showroom so close to mine in placement. Man, that Marantz gear is beautiful too. I am loving these speakers!

 

[Gordon]

RW & Jim, it is good to hear you guys are happy with the sound your getting! I know I'm about a month behind your posts, but for what it is worth, enjoy the music!

Gordon

 

[Jimna]

thanks gordan! i took your advice on the emo amp too.

 

[rw_designs]

Gordon and Jim,

I am sorry but I am behind here as well. I have been spending most of my time listening to the Prefaces and tuning the room. Got that coffee table out of there. Big difference. Still using the Crown amp. I just have no idea what to buy. I came close to the Aragon but missed out there. I would like something new anyways I am not getting younger here. So it costs a bit more thats ok.

Gordon you have been so great helping out with all this and Jim I am happy you have your system on time with that emotiva.

I will know probably what to get someday just have to keep looking and reading and listening to you fellas.
Thank You.

Later-Ron

 

[Gordon]

Well Ron, listening to music is the bottom line for most of us:music: Don't be in a rush to buy anything. Use your Crown until you think you know what you want to improve.

There a many amps, CDP's, wires and other components available, enough to make your head spin! Then again, you may be content with the way it is then there is no need to buy anything.

Keep us posted!

Gordon

 

[rw_designs]

Not much luck on an amp yet but some promising news. One local dealer wants me to try a Bryston SST2. Yikes. He has claimed that it will be the end of all discussion on a power amp. I cannot remember if he wanted me to try the 4B, 3B or 2B. Sure at that price it will be good but there has to be something more affordable that will be killer for these speakers.

With regard to placement of the Prefaces. I have mine six feet apart and eight feet from the couch and two and a half feet from the front wall. Slightly toed in about 1/3 the front face and they sound pretty good there.

I brought them out a little further to two and a half feet because I was working back behind them one day and the paneling was shaking on the front wall. I was not sure if that was right??? Of course they were playing at moderate levels too but I was not sure if that was some kind of absorption or effect I should avoid???

Last night I was listening to the LA Symphony Orchestra at the Disney Theatre - great show. Well, I moved them again only this time I changed the toe in to nearly straight out into the listening area. Only a slight toe in. The change in sound was remarkable. The imaging and presence changed significantly for the better and it was already really nice.

Of course it was late and I did not have time to try other sources but man, what gives here fellas? Am I always going to have surprises like this and am I close to optimum now? They are definitely broken in at over 100 hrs. Beautiful! :music:

 

[rw_designs]

As a start point, make 1/3 of the inner side of each speaker face your sitting position. This array will give good image, but you have to experiment there, to get the most of them...what I like, not necessary is your liking, happy listening, and welcome to our ML family!
Roberto.

Can someone help me I never heard back on this. What does this mean? What am I doing physically with the speaker for this?

Thank you!
Ron

 

[MOON]

Most people use the flashlight method to set the speaker up so that you are listening to the inner 1/3 of the speaker. Sit in your listening seat in the middle of your room. Have a helper to adjust the speaker toe in.

Put the flashlight centered on your head and look at the right speaker. You will see a distinct shinny line going vertical the whole length of the stator. Have your helper adjust the speaker until this line is a 1/3rd in from the inside of the speaker.

This flashlight method of finding toe in works great, sounds weird, but it works.

Cheers, Greg