preamp suggestions to match Krell KAV 250a

[coolcobramatt]

Almost nailed down a KAV 250a amp, but need recommendations for a good budget-minded premap to go with it. Seller has a B&K Ref 20 he will add in for $100 so I may go that route temporarily.

As some of you know, due to lack of dealers around me as well as owners, actually listening to a product simply isn't reality for me, I have to go on reviews and recommendations from those I trust.

Any thoughts on a good preamp that might match the Krell and under $500? I'm selling the MF A300 and going to try separates for the first time ever. If possible, I would like to find a pre that has tone controls (treble and bass only). Just a simple preamp, SS or tube.

 

[Bernard]

If you don't have to sell the MF to get money for the Krell, you could always use it as a preamp for now.

 

[User211]

Just been listening to a KAV250 into some MBL116Fs only a couple of weeks ago - with a very good valve pre and a passive. Very good but different results with both.

The passive was this: Tisbury

Or if you want R/C I would buy one of these. Drop dead stonking gorgeous and LOOK at the prices. Brilliant! Khozmo Passives

Trust me - the Tisbury is fine even with very expensive kit. It only attenuates like any passive, though, but I'm sure you won't need any extra gain with the Krell - input sensitivity seems fine with a passive.

I'd take a risk and buy the Khozmo myself. Some nice options to consider too.

 

[coolcobramatt]

If you don't have to sell the MF to get money for the Krell, you could always use it as a preamp for now.

You hit the nail on the head..I have to sell Peter to pay Paul.

Just been listening to a KAV250 into some MBL116Fs only a couple of weeks ago - with a very good valve pre and a passive. Very good but different results with both.

The passive was this: Tisbury

Or if you want R/C I would buy one of these. Drop dead stonking gorgeous and LOOK at the prices. Brilliant! Khozmo Passives

Trust me - the Tisbury is fine even with very expensive kit. It only attenuates like any passive, though, but I'm sure you won't need any extra gain with the Krell - input sensitivity seems fine with a passive.

I'd take a risk and buy the Khozmo myself. Some nice options to consider too.

I looked at those, they do look nice. Will research and see what the price is.

 

[coolcobramatt]

Well I got the Krell and B&K in, don't like the sound as much so I've already posted it on the 'Gon. Going back to my A5 search, maybe buy the Mac 7270 and pre or even a Rogue Audio integrated if I find a good deal.

It has noticeably higher headroom and bass extension but the high end seems grainy and harsh at higher volume levels. Lost some highs as well, Krell is flatter overall. I don't think living with it will improve the sound so the A300 is going back in!

 

[Spike]

It has noticeably higher headroom and bass extension but the high end seems grainy and harsh at higher volume levels. Lost some highs as well, Krell is flatter overall. I don't think living with it will improve the sound so the A300 is going back in!

Sorry the Krell/B&K combo did not work out for you. I kinda suspect that you were trading sound quality for power making the transition from the A300 to the Krell/B&K but that is something you'd need to try out by yourself within the context of your system. As I have stated before, the A300 is a really good piece and it'll be hard to find something better for the $1500 budget, integrated or separates. Be patient.

 

[coolcobramatt]

Sorry the Krell/B&K combo did not work out for you. I kinda suspect that you were trading sound quality for power making the transition from the A300 to the Krell/B&K but that is something you'd need to try out by yourself within the context of your system. As I have stated before, the A300 is a really good piece and it'll be hard to find something better for the $1500 budget, integrated or separates. Be patient.

I was hoping the Krell would extend my highs but not so much as to make listening painful. You were right!

 

[coolcobramatt]

Do you guys think the preamp might be the issue? What about changing to a Mac pre? The Krell is amazing for home theater with the ML's...serious impact! it's just the harsh highs at higher volumes when playing my tried and true Eagles blu-ray concert disc.

 

[Spike]

Do you guys think the preamp might be the issue? What about changing to a Mac pre? The Krell is amazing for home theater with the ML's...serious impact! it's just the harsh highs at higher volumes when playing my tried and true Eagles blu-ray concert disc.

While the B&K Ref 20 is an AV processor, not exactly what I'd call a musical pre-amp for audio, I would not put all the blame on the B&K. Both Krell & B&K units were optimized for home-theater application with forward and bright characteristics in order to highlight the movie impact and that's what you're getting. You could tame the Krell with an overly "warm" preamp, in order to negate the bright/harsh characteristic, but this is like putting a bandage on top of a bandage. Since you already have the Krell in your possession, why not give bi-amplification a try. Let the MF A300 drive the panels, and the Krell pulling bass duty. You can accomplish this feat by connecting the pre-out from the MF to the Krell and hook up the Krell to the woofers. Make sure you remove the jumper clips between the binding posts when you do this. You might like the sweet, smooth highs of the MF combined with the vise-grip control of the Krell. To do it correctly, you might need some attenuation to match the gains of the 2 amplifiers, but this is only a try-out to see whether this bi-amp option will work for you.

Good luck,

 

[coolcobramatt]

While the B&K Ref 20 is an AV processor, not exactly what I'd call a musical pre-amp for audio, I would not put all the blame on the B&K. Both Krell & B&K units were optimized for home-theater application with forward and bright characteristics in order to highlight the movie impact and that's what you're getting. You could tame the Krell with an overly "warm" preamp, in order to negate the bright/harsh characteristic, but this is like putting a bandage on top of a bandage. Since you already have the Krell in your possession, why not give bi-amplification a try. Let the MF A300 drive the panels, and the Krell pulling bass duty. You can accomplish this feat by connecting the pre-out from the MF to the Krell and hook up the Krell to the woofers. Make sure you remove the jumper clips between the binding posts when you do this. You might like the sweet, smooth highs of the MF combined with the vise-grip control of the Krell. To do it correctly, you might need some attenuation to match the gains of the 2 amplifiers, but this is only a try-out to see whether this bi-amp option will work for you.

Good luck,

I have bi-wire cables and nothing else, so that kills the bi-amp trial. I have to sell the MF to fund the new purchase (or sell the Krell) or whatever I go with. I was considering a trade with an Agon seller on his PrimaLuna Prologue 6 mono blocks but of course not having any experience again I am shooting in the dark. Would 70 wpc tubes give me the volume level I'm used to with my A300? I would still be stuck with needing a better pre. I've already posted the krell on the 'Gon and the B&K sold almost immediately within that posting.

I do still have the option of the Mac 7270 and C35 from the Krell seller. Both pieces were mint as he promised, so I believe him when he tells me the Mac stuff is mint as well.

 

[Spike]

From my experience, tubes are great on the panels, meaning you'll still need a good solid-state amp on the woofers. And I have not mentioned that you'll also need a decent pre-amp! This is the main rationale behind my previous post that you'll need a $2500 budget if you want to improve from the MF A300. With regards to whether 70-watts is enough, take look at my system, I have 50 watt monoblocs driving my panels and a Classe' 300-watter on the woofers.
Given the option and what you've posted, I think the McIntosh combination will be a much better match for your system.

 

[coolcobramatt]

I can pick up the MAC equipment for about $1800 so I may go that route. The move to separates I felt would at least be a lateral move but with the degraded highs, it seems to be a step back. Movies have me jumping quite often when gun shots go off or car crashes happen. I haven't heard that much dynamics since my SL3's and Denon 4802 combo (my first ML setup).

I want the sweet highs but don't want to make a backwards step with home theater, do you feel the MAC power would keep me at the MF level but give me the boost in headroom or even better sound quality?

 

[Spike]

The McIntosh combo should give you slightly more headroom with 250wpc vs 150wpc (for the MF 300). Sound quality wise, I think you'll get about the same quality but you may perceive a more relaxed, laid back presentation due to the fact that the big Mac is not working that hard. Good luck.

 

[coolcobramatt]

The McIntosh combo should give you slightly more headroom with 250wpc vs 150wpc (for the MF 300). Sound quality wise, I think you'll get about the same quality but you may perceive a more relaxed, laid back presentation due to the fact that the big Mac is not working that hard. Good luck.

The MF is closer to 250 wpc as the ML's should be a 4 ohm load presentation. The MAC is 270 at 8/4/2. With that in mind do you think the MAC move would be a step up or a lateral move?

 

[Spike]

Hmm, very hard to say. If I have to venture out on a limb, I'd say moving to the McIntosh will probably be slightly better than a lateral move. Probably due to the beefy power-supply and the autoformers to deal with the wild impedance load-swing presented by the Logans. But then again, others have commented that the autoformers impede on the transparency of the highs and they'd much prefer a more direct connection between the output stage and the speakers. Sorry, I am not of much help here.

 

[coolcobramatt]

on the contrary you have been a big help thanks! I'm going to use the Krell/B&K for a few days and then swap back to the A300 and see how big a difference there is.

 

[Spike]

Here's a suggestion in order to normalize the playing field: Use the MF as preamp and the Krell to drive the speakers. This way, you're directly comparing the Krell with the amplification section of the MF. You might find the MF to serve as a more musical preamp than the B&K.