Planning to buy Spires - need your input

[bxl]

Hi all, not an ML owner yet, but planning to buy Spires soon, and need some help with following question:

I'm planning to put the speakers in the living room, which has an opening to the dining room. The main sofa's back is placed against the long wall (bottom in pic) facing that opening, and unless we change the furniture layout (not desirable) I'll have to put the Spires on each side of the opening (where the green squares are placed in pic). Room is 13x15.5.

Would this be ok? Any problems i need to be aware of?

Aprox. room plan:
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1210/roomlayoutck4.jpg


Thanks!
-bxl

 

[RichTeer]

It's undesirable to have wall immediately behind you (too many sound reflections), and you may have to push your speakers too far back. You'd probably get better results if you have the Spires facing down the length of the room, a few feet from the front wall.

 

[C.A.P]

If you put them with an opening in between like that you will get a huge suck out of image. ESL need room to breath for the rear wave to give that ESL sound. As Rich said, put them on the 13 foot wall about 2 feet to center panel with a slight toe in about 3 feet away from the front wall and sit back about 11 feet

 

[Feltran]

I'd probably also put them oriented to the length of the room rather than how you have them. With that said, the dimensions you provided suggest that the dimensions of the diagram aren't to scale, so I think it should be fine either way. I'd want to make sure that the distance between the 2 speakers is less than the distance between the speakers and the sofa. Also, I think it can be helpful to have a wall behind the speakers, but if at all possible make sure that the speakers are a minimum of 2 feet from the rear wall; further is better in most cases.

There's good news and bad news with speakers like the Spires. I haven't had a chance to do major room treatments, because of a space with a highly unusual shape, and some people say that room treatments and proper setup are the single best thing you can do to improve the sound. The good news, however, is that I think they sound pretty fantastic in my far less than perfect room.

 

[Gordon]

I'll agree with moving them to the short wall if at all possible. You're risking a huge suck out in the middle as C.A.P mentions.

I have mine on a short wall with an opening into the dining room creating a "L" shaped room. I have a slight imbalance between left and right because of it. Fortunately, I have tone/balance controls on my pre and can skew the balance a wee bit to the left to compensate.

By the way, excellent choice on speakers but I am biased!

Gordon

 

[jtwrace]

Yes, as mentioned you could go on the short wall (longways). OR could do exactly what you have but flip it around. The sofa would need to be in from the entrance and then you could put a sofa table behind it. ahh. husband of an interior designer...I've heard it all.

 

[tonepub]

might even want to consider a pair of Vantages, the room's pretty small...

 

[bxl]

Thanks all for the replies... Was in the middle of the move this weekend so couldn't check my email until tonight.

So i guess the opening between speakers is not recommended... I might be able to put them on the short wall afterall, or even try to flip them around as jtwrace suggested (and yes the diagram is not accurate, just an approximation)...

might even want to consider a pair of Vantages, the room's pretty small...

Tonepub, do you recommend going with smaller speakers? i'm pretty sure i read on this forum people having Spires in similar sized rooms but i might be wrong... and many recommended Spires over Vantages for various reasons (better dynamics, transparency, etc...)

Another speaker i just read about on other forums, which reviewers said it performs amazingly well in smaller sized rooms is Gallo 3.1. They say it has the best of ESL characteristics like fast, transparent, very wide soundstage etc... but with less finicky placement requirements and much bigger sweet spot (I know this is ML forums and if it's not advisable to discuss other speakers here pls let me know). The review is so positive that i'm skeptical really, but would like to ask if someone heard it, and how would you compare it to ESL, specially for smaller sized rooms (13x15.5)

Thanks for all your help!
-bxl

 

[timm]

Thanks all for the replies... Was in the middle of the move this weekend so couldn't check my email until tonight.

So i guess the opening between speakers is not recommended... I might be able to put them on the short wall afterall, or even try to flip them around as jtwrace suggested (and yes the diagram is not accurate, just an approximation)...



Tonepub, do you recommend going with smaller speakers? i'm pretty sure i read on this forum people having Spires in similar sized rooms but i might be wrong... and many recommended Spires over Vantages for various reasons (better dynamics, transparency, etc...)

Another speaker i just read about on other forums, which reviewers said it performs amazingly well in smaller sized rooms is Gallo 3.1. They say it has the best of ESL characteristics like fast, transparent, very wide soundstage etc... but with less finicky placement requirements and much bigger sweet spot (I know this is ML forums and if it's not advisable to discuss other speakers here pls let me know). The review is so positive that i'm skeptical really, but would like to ask if someone heard it, and how would you compare it to ESL, specially for smaller sized rooms (13x15.5)

Thanks for all your help!
-bxl

I have heard the gallos plenty of times - and like them. But the diff between the spires and these will be big and you will have to determine what you like...
The Gallos will have a thicker sound - and they do disappear nicely... and the soundstage is pretty incredible but, they don't have the height in the soundstage that I like. If you like detail - you will like the spires better. If you like a fuller, lusher , warmer sound - you may like the gallos.... I lean more towards the cleaner sound of the ML with the finer inner detail that they give.

 

[FISH_MAN]

even if your room is bad bigger and better is still bigger and better to a sertain point what I mean is I would probalby not put statements in that room. I think you will like the spires look at system #262 far from optimal room but it probably sounds nice

 

[Kruppy]

I have heard the gallos plenty of times - and like them. But the diff between the spires and these will be big and you will have to determine what you like...
The Gallos will have a thicker sound - and they do disappear nicely... and the soundstage is pretty incredible but, they don't have the height in the soundstage that I like. If you like detail - you will like the spires better. If you like a fuller, lusher , warmer sound - you may like the gallos.... I lean more towards the cleaner sound of the ML with the finer inner detail that they give.

I have also heard the Gallos (but not the Spires) compared to my old SL3s. My observations are right in line with timm's comments.

 

[David Matz]

Tonepub, do you recommend going with smaller speakers? i'm pretty sure i read on this forum people having Spires in similar sized rooms but i might be wrong... and many recommended Spires over Vantages for various reasons (better dynamics, transparency, etc...)

Another speaker i just read about on other forums, which reviewers said it performs amazingly well in smaller sized rooms is Gallo 3.1. They say it has the best of ESL characteristics like fast, transparent, very wide soundstage etc... but with less finicky placement requirements and much bigger sweet spot (I know this is ML forums and if it's not advisable to discuss other speakers here pls let me know). The review is so positive that i'm skeptical really, but would like to ask if someone heard it, and how would you compare it to ESL, specially for smaller sized rooms (13x15.5)

Thanks for all your help!
-bxl

I can't comment on the Gallo. However, I have heard the Vantages and Summits in a room similar to your size many times, and you will get a much better sounding system if you get the Vantages + room treatments + better electronics for the difference in cost. Don't know what you have in electronics now, but unless you have more than $25K in electronics, your money will be better spent there than on the Spire. The difference of a Vantage with great electronics vs Spire with so so stuff will be huge. The speakers in that sized room reach their diminishing returns much quicker.

 

[tonepub]

I couldn't agree with David more!

The common thing I've seen in most high end systems that don't sound as good as they could is that in almost ever case, the person has put too big of a speaker in too small of a room.

 

[bxl]

Thanks everyone for the tips! I'm planning to audition the Vantages in the next few days, and if i like them i'll get them instead of Spires and put the difference in better electronics as David suggested

Are BAT tube amps/pres good to drive Vantages? i'm looking at something like Bat VK-60 / VK-3i or one of their tube integrated...

Thanks again,
-bxl

 

[twich54]

unless you have more than $25K in electronics, your money will be better spent there than on the Spire.

Dave, I agree with most of which you've said, except the quote above. One need not spend 25k plus on electronics for great sound. Escpecially if wise shopping is done via the used market. Keep in mind I'm not advocating we mate our Logans up against a $500 receiver either !

 

[David Matz]

Dave, I agree with most of which you've said, except the quote above. One need not spend 25k plus on electronics for great sound. Escpecially if wise shopping is done via the used market. Keep in mind I'm not advocating we mate our Logans up against a $500 receiver either !

Dave, I agree with you. I was just trying to make a contrast of how much one could improve the sound with electronics before upgrading the speakers in a room that size. To clarify further, I would spend my money on room treatments first, then electronics. The Vantages sound superb in a well treated room - most people just never experience it - a real shame!!! They assume that a higher priced speaker is that much better based on the cost differential.

 

[tonepub]

One need not spend huge money for pretty good sound, but the Vantage, Summit and Spire are all so good, that I really think you will get more music out of say, 25k worth of electronics and Vantages, vs 10k worth of electronics and the summit....

I've put the Vantages at the tail end of almost 200k worth of electronics and they were not the least bit embarrassed. All three of these speakers are excellent!

 

[DrJRapp]

Thanks everyone for the tips! I'm planning to audition the Vantages in the next few days, and if i like them i'll get them instead of Spires and put the difference in better electronics as David suggested

Are BAT tube amps/pres good to drive Vantages? i'm looking at something like Bat VK-60 / VK-3i or one of their tube integrated...

Thanks again,
-bxl

I'm a BAT owner, at least preamp wise. I use a pair of SS monoblocks by another manufacturer connected to a BAT VK31SE. BAT makes superb products. Many say that the preamp you are looking at is 95% of what the 31SE is. If so I think you'll like it!

 

[tonepub]

I've also had good luck with BAT, even though I'm a CJ owner.

The newest version, the VK32SE and the VK55SE amp work quite well together and have no problem driving current ML speakers. they also have a very low impedance tap, which I'm sure helps somewhat and the 6C33 tube is a little bit more robust than the 6550/KT88.

You should have no problems at all with that pair....

 

[Dougster]

I have Spires in room 18 1/2 x 13ft and they love it! Excellence of electronics and front end, and amplification clearly an issue
I chose to upgrade my front end to Moon Evolution series and Vantage (rather than Opus Resolution Plus old Krell 150 + Summit) and then the Spires were born! If your local dealer does home trial/ demo, that would be the way to go. Just remember your ears in your room are the best assessment cos that is how and where you will be listening. And only you know your priorities and preferences. Good luck