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:eek1:So here's apparently what Mitt said at a recent fundraiser in Florida, as reported by Mother Jones.

47% of Americans are victims . . . and dependent on government.

My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.


So one may ask, who are these people?.

Per research provided by the Brookings Institute, the majority of these "victims" don't pay Federal income tax but do pay payroll, state, and local taxes and include senior citizens, white men with high school degrees, and middle class workers.

Class warfare anyone?

Go Mitt. :rocker:

GG

PS: I realized today that I will be a "victim" (per Mitt) in a couple of years when I retire. :confused: Of course, I've only been working and paying all required taxes and other contributions for some 42 years to date. I learned from Mitt that this apparently means nothing and I will be sucking off the Government's breast. This would also include many retirees who are currently collecting Social Security.
 
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I am an Obama backer so I am part of that 47% and I pay substantial income tax at rate much much higher than Romney did.

I suspect there are lots of Obama backers who pay lots of income tax.

His perception of reality seem to be non congruent with the facts.


J
 
PS: I realized today that I will be a "victim" (per Mitt) in a couple of years when I retire. :confused: Of course, I've only been working and paying all required taxes and other contributions for some 42 years to date. I learned from Mitt that this apparently means nothing and I will be sucking off the Government's breast. This would also include many retirees who are currently collecting Social Security.

Don't be confused. That's exactly what the right wing extremists believe. I was told on my Facebook page that I was a basically a freeloader, living off the backs of the employed, because I am retired and that was an example of why Obama is a socialist! I suppose that if you don't work until you die, you're a left wing socialist commie. Forget about the American dream of working hard in order to be able to enjoy your later years in life.
 
His perception of reality seem to be non congruent with the facts.
J

well......lets just say he's not the first presidential canidate to get his facts mixed up.......2008...."I've now been in 57 states.....I think one left to go" , now who could have been so dumb as to say that... LOL !!

One of my fav's though was in 2011..... "We're the country that built the intercontinental railroad"

Now before you 'lefties' get your panties in a bind I will agree that Obama's recent gaff on small business, "if you've got a business you didn't build that. Somebody made it happen", was but a 'piece' of an entire statement that was taken out of context. Does he have a clue as to what it's like to start and toil away at making a small business run and be succesfull, probably not, for IF he did he would have choosen his words more carefully as well.
 
Appropriate comment as always my friend.

Has Obama ever started a small business and made it successful? No.

Has Romney made a clear statement regarding his "base supporters" and those that he cares about and, more importantly, doesn't care about? I think so.
 
We need to find a person who was very poor, lived in cities, farmed, fought in wars, made a successful buiiness, is very rich, but flies economy.

Perhaps next election.


J
 
Has Romney made a clear statement regarding his "base supporters" and those that he cares about and, more importantly, doesn't care about? I think so.

Gordon, my 'gut' and I agree with you but remember this........back in '08 when Obama made a not so kind remark to donors at a fund raiser, that some 'working-class voters', "cling to their guns or religion" as a reason to support republicans.

Is there truth in that remark, you betcha, but don't think for one minute that there isn't at least 'several ounces' of truth in Romney's remarks as well !
 
Agreed my friend. An absolute foot in the mouth for Obama. But I do believe he has since apologized for those remarks.

But, you must admit, there are many ways to make Mitt's point in a non-condescending, sensitive, and respectful manner.

Have a great weekend.

Gordon
 
The problem with what Romney said was the percentage (47%) that he used, not very smart. Not sure if he said that in error because it just came to him, or was that a figure he had previously thought about? There is a percentage of the population that relies upon government and don't have the desire, motivation, and/or an upbringing (parenting or role models) to make them want to go out and provide for themselves, and it grows larger with each generation. I don't they they tend to pull the lever for republicans.

The larger problem really isn't that 47%, actually I think that number is now 49%, aren't paying income tax. It is the fact that the percentage has greatly increased over the past 20-30 years and keeps getting higher. Where is the tipping point for the percentage of those paying vs those who don't? I think the bigger question is how large of a role should government play in helping individuals, particularily those who could and can help themselves, but chose not to? I see someone like Sandra Fluke, who is going to a law school that I could have never afforded, she'll start off probably making twice as much as I currently earn, and yet she's whining about the taxpayer not helping her and fellow classmates pay for their contraceptives. I had fun in college, but as I stood in line at the 7-Eleven to purchase my condoms, I never once thought that someone else should be helping me make my purchase.

Even Michelle Obama, in her convention speech, hinted towards part of a problem, but I don't think I've heard anyone else mention it. In her speech, she noted that Barack was so poor that he had to fish his coffee table from the dumpster. But how does someone that poor afford to be able to drink a lot of beer, smoke a lot of pot, snort some cocaine, and try other drugs enthusiastically as he admitted? Perhaps he didn't pay for his drugs, maybe was known by his friends as the one who would always partake but who would never help contribute. Kind of sounds like part of that 49%.
 
you must admit, there are many ways to make Mitt's point in a non-condescending, sensitive, and respectful manner.

Have a great weekend.

Gordon

Agreed...100%

You have a great weekend as well Gordon, weather is a '10' here in Co. !
 
Kevin,

The problem with Romney is not the stated percentage but his condescending, judgmental remarks regarding that percentage. What's your take on his fund raising presentation, the words he used, and his ability to be President and act in the best interests of all Americans, should he be elected. See second quote / Post No. 61.

One of his comments that hasn't got alot of press is "I'd have a better chance of getting elected president if I were Mexican".

Any comment? That one still mystifies me.

Also and as reported elsewhere, the majority of that 47 or whatever percent reside in states that historically vote Republican. And that 47% includes the elderly and retirees receiving Social Security, people who've served in the military, and people working two jobs and who, by the way, pay State, payroll and sales tax that amount to a larger percentage of their annual income than Romney has paid annually in Federal taxes.

Respectfully,

Gordon

PS: Dave, same here weather wise but the valley has been "smoked in" for some two months. Getting old.

Kevin, I know I did alot of stupid things when I was a teenager and then grew up. All indications are that Obama admitted it publicly (an act of courage in and of itself), and has grown up and become a responsible adult, not to mention President of the USA. Not too bad on either account.
 
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I think the real problem for Mr. Romney is that these series of comments seem to suggest that he is not that smart and perhaps not smart enough for the job.


J
 
Hi Gordon- I went back and reread the transcript dealing with the 47%, and I still hold the opinion that if he said something like 20%, it would have come out far better. He didn't just come out with this statement, so I don't think he had previously thought about what he should say. It was made to answer a question. ***Question- "For the last three years, all everybody's been told is, "Don't worry, we'll take care of you." How are you going to do it, in two months before the elections, to convince everybody you've got to take care of yourself?"*** So he's being asked how do you convince people to not rely on government and take personal responsibility. He's correct, for a certain percentage, he'll never convince them, nor will anyone else. However, it isn't anywhere near 47%. Romney called for the full release of the tape, as his remarks to that question were cut short by what was released. Mother Jones, that released the tape, has said that a couple of minutes are unfortunately missing, it just so happens that the only thing missing for the most part is his explanation to this one question. Just dumb luck or is the missing part clarifying or correcting his remarks and were selectively editited? We might never know.

To his remark, "I'd have a better chance of getting elected president if I were Mexican", I would say that wasn't really his statement. Here is the exact statement taken from a transcript, so I'm guessing it is correct. ***"...my dad, you probably know, was the governor of Michigan and was the head of a car company, but he was born in Mexico. And had he been born of Mexican parents I'd have a better shot at winning this, but he was unfortunately born of Americans living in Mexico. They'd lived there for a number of years, and, uh, I mean I say that jokingly, but it'd be helpful if they'd been Latino" *** So he came straight out and said it was a joke, so I'm going to take his word for it and assume it was. So what is the joke? I'm guessing, but I don't know anymore than you, that he's saying he would pickup more of the Latino vote if he could claim to be Latino. A good number of people thought that picking Rubio for VP could have helped with the Latino vote. Obama certainly picks up a few more shares of the black vote by being black, they did come out 4 years ago in record numbers. But if it is politically incorrect to suggest that, then I would say to look at Samuel Jackson's comments concerning color and voting.

I thought you had a statement about his drug use, or perhaps I've been smoking something? Since I'm at work, I often times have to bounce around between screens and systems if I get phone calls or clients in the office, so I'm guessing you might have already seen that information and taken the question out. Let me say, I don't care what the president did in high school or college. I doubt he did anything that I haven't done, and sometimes still do. When I worked at a lumber company through my later high school and college summers, I worked with some young men that would blow a whole weeks pay on 'goodies' for the weekend. Of course, they then didn't have money to fix their car or were short on rent money etc. My point is about having priorities. Was the president dumpster diving for a table with a bag of weed in his pocket that he had just purchased? How many people are there that can't afford health insurance but somehow manage to keep the fridge stocked well with beer and never go without their cigarettes?

For your last statement about 47% being composed of the elderly, military etc., I agree with you, that is why I said the percentage he used was totally wrong. I'm not a cold person. I do believe in giving people a helping hand. I work with people who live on the margins, they work hard but struggle. I can tell you that some people need help, but make too much to qualify for some assistance they need, but they earn too little to easily keep their heads out of the water. These are the people I would like to see get more help. I also work with some that don't work, are pregnant with their fourth child from as many fathers, and while they don't live the life I would want to live, they seem to get by with less stress than those who struggle but do work, including at times yours truely. There are those who tell me they are on disability, and then proceed to tell me how good the fishing is in the river. Of course, I would like to be there with them, but I need to work. In my opinion, this isn't at all fair. But what do you do, not help the kids? Not help those that are truely disabled? I suggest only that the system is broken, not that the answers are easy.

I wouldn't mind seeing an increase in the tax of top earners, of course in full disclosure, I'm nowhere close to being in that group. But I wouldn't like to see the taxes raised just so government can increase in size that much more, to pay down the debt would be fine. I would wager that most of the top earners probably live in democratic districts, and it certainly would take the whole tax 'fairness' issue off the table. However, I don't think for one minute that the government increasing the taxes on my rich neighbor will raise my standard of living one bit. I would bet instead that, especially with a democrat majority, it would be used to grow government and entitlement spending that much more, which in my opinion, would only then do more harm.

Hope you have a good weekend.

Kevin
 
At this point increase revenues and decreased spending is a must no matter what party is in power. I think Obama is far more to the right than most think and is clearly a pragmatist. Sort of like a Rockerfeller Republican in the 60s .

So I expect in his 2nd term some clear budgetary due diligence to the deficit as has has said.


J
 
Kevin,

Thank you for your substantive, respectful response and perspective. Much to ponder during these troubling / difficult times.

Best,

Gordon
 
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I think Obama is far more to the right than most think and is clearly a pragmatist. Sort of like a Rockerfeller Republican in the 60s .

Are you saying this with a straight face :) . He admitted, again from his book, that in school he sought out marxist professors. One can change from college, but I don't see where he has had that much of an awakening. He surrounded and associated himself with very liberal, I would say radically so in some instances, individuals while coming up in Chicago politics. He has chosen as close associates, cabinet members, czars etc., while in the White House, individuals that don't suggest to me that he is anywhere near moderate. I'm sure if a republican were in the White House, you would suggest they are much farther to the right than I might, but between you and me, I don't expect to hear Obama ever say that the "era of big government is over".

Cheers-

Kevin
 
And that 47% includes the elderly and retirees receiving Social Security, people who've served in the military, and people working two jobs and who, by the way, pay State, payroll and sales tax that amount to a larger percentage of their annual income than Romney has paid annually in Federal taxes.

And this gets to the crux of the issue.

Somehow, we've got to find a way to get to tax fairness. For Romney/Ryan/Republicans to completely disregard the taxes the wage earners pay (with a complete lack of progressiveness -- just a simple straight percentage of earned income) is downright scandalous. Romney and his elite (one tenth of one percent) brethren get ridiculously favorable tax treatment at least in part because.......THEY EARN NO INCOME!!! Are these folks "entitled" to this favorable tax treatment? Can this even remotely be considered fair?

Perhaps:

1) The TOTAL percent of taxes paid relative to income (earned or unearned) ought to be considered.
2) ALL taxes -- including income, property, Social Security, Medicare, etc should be progressive.
3) Remove the artificial caps on Social Security and Medicare taxes. After all, why on earth should someone who earns (or receives unearned / investment income) of, say, $800,000.00 only pay these taxes on approximately 1/8th of their income? This makes these taxes extremely regressive. I doubt this is something Romney would even briefly entertain...but it's the right thing to do.
4) Tie -- with an unbreakable link -- increased revenue from SS / Medicare taxes to funding these programs.

That's for starters... Very interested in additional thought / other proposals as well.
 
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